[fragglestickcar]

Hi, I am the author of the exploding furnace thread

As you can see it's not a big furnace. I received a quote for $7,160 for replacement, chimney liner, and 2-year warranty.

I am a resident of Long Island. Does anyone have advice for getting the price down? Thanks.

 

[Gymschu]

Well, for starters, get more than one quote.
I'm sure things are quite a bit pricier in LI than they are in the rest of the country except the West Coast. $7,000 in LI is probably about $3500 in my neck of the woods. I'm sure the cost of operating an HVAC business in LI is quite high.

 

[roughneck]

Get several quotes. Do you research. Get someone willing to calculate the building load. Just because you have XXX btu now doesn't mean you need to go back with that size.
You don't want to go with the most discounted company. Your unit reliability, efficiency and performance is a direct result of how it was sized, selected and installed. Cost doesn't mean quality but good work isn't going to come cheap. This isn't like buying a car. A car comes put together. Your buying parts for the car and the knowledge to have someone put all the parts together correctly.

 

[joeplumber85]

Seems like a realistic price to retrofit in a high end high efficiency gas furnace with tstat, liner and 2 year warranty.

If you're looking to spend less then get a lower end furnace with shorter warranty.

 

[user_12345a]

You're looking at a boiler, not a furnace - they cost a lot more.

The type of boiler you get has a huge impact on price.

 

[fragglestickcar]

Oh, right, user12345_a. It's a boiler, not a furnace.

 

[yuri]

Like cars there are different brands with different quality and different features.

Audi is Volkswagen but a much higher standard. Same with Lexus and Toyota.

You need to determine what you want in terms of price range and quality and get info on different brands.

Weil McLain is the top dog IMO and been around 4ever and easy to get parts for.

Slant fin has been around 4ever and reasonably good but not as good as Weil McLain from what I hear. Cost less though.

http://www.weil-mclain.com/

http://www.slantfin.com/

I don't sell boilers and our guy Beenthere and others know the US market and the different brands.

You may want to get some quotes on different brands and post them here and maybe they can help you.

Get the salespeople to describe the different features and warranty etc.

 

[fragglestickcar]

Got a quote for 5,200 on a slantfin 130k BTU and chimney liner. Mentioned that to another fellow who countered with 4,900.

So clearly the initial 7,160 was a gouge. My question for anyone familiar with Long island HVAC is how far down can I go? What's the industry standard profit margin on a small and standard job like mine?

 

[user_12345a]

No boiler expert, quite the contrary, never even opened one - however, i've got to ask...

Do you know what kind of unit you're looking at? natural draft, induced draft, condensing, modulating? Outdoor reset or not?

Required capacity? 130k sounds like a lot, maybe within reason with an indirect tank.

The prices will be all over the map if u call several different contractors who quote units which aren't equivalent. You wouldn't go into different car dealers and ask to buy "a car" -> do that and u be looking at 15 000 to 60 000.

The cheapest bidder may not do it right; BTU sizing based on heat loss of house, maybe rad sizes + water temp? setup? install?




I don't believe there's a standard profit margin anywhere. A guy with a helper working from a van with a cell phone will be cheaper than a company with salaried office staff, dedicated sales people, etc.

 

[fragglestickcar]

What am I looking for? All I know is my old boiler was 140k btu and natural draft, and it is currently very dangerous to operate. I don't have an opinion on the features you mention since I don't understand any of the terms without googling them first.

The 7160 quote came from a uniformed fellow who dropped off a company embossed pen and sales brochures along with the sticker shock quote.

The 4900 quote came from a guy in a van with a heavy long island accent.

 

[roughneck]

Stop focusing on the price, and how low you can make it go. Your paying someone not only to sell you a boiler, but to engineer the whole job and make your boiler run as it was designed to. Your looking for someone to do a proper load analysis, and to sit down with you and explain the whole job. A boiler is just a pile of inanimate parts. How it runs is very dependent on the person you find to spec it, size it, install it and commission it. Your not getting the same job for those prices, and if you keep racing to the bottom your going to wind up with a moonlighter working with no insurance and will not answer the phone after your check clears.

 

[user_12345a]

What am I looking for? All I know is my old boiler was 140k btu and natural draft, and it is currently very dangerous to operate. I don't have an opinion on the features you mention since I don't understand any of the terms without googling them first

You may not need a 140k btu boiler.

Oversizing causes short cycling in theory; if u have too much capacity relative to the rads installed the burners will cycle on and off a fair amount during extended heating cycles. The aqua-stat cycles burners on and off to maintain water temperature, prevent overheating even during a continuous call for heat.

Short cycling reduces efficiency. It takes a good 10 to 15 minutes for a forced air furnace to reach steady state efficiency/capacity, and with the boilers, probably longer.

You can buy a natural draft boiler last time I checked but with a damper and spark ignition, makes it a bit more efficient than what u have but still not efficient. I don't recommend u buy one.

Induced draft is mid efficiency, exhaust vented by a fan. Uses less indoor air for combustion, higher steady state combustion efficiency - possibly due to less excess air, better control over the draft.

Condensing is 90%+ efficient but to hit 90%+ the water temperature has to be low. If the aqua-stat is set to 180f or something the condensing boiler won't save much compared to induced draft. To save much with a high efficiency boiler you must get an outdoor reset which lowers the water temperature as it gets warmer outside. The lower the water temperature the better the heat transfer.

Modulating uses a variable capacity gas valve so the burners don't cycle on and off to maintain the aqua-stat setpoint.

Get model numbers in quotes, post and the guys here who know boilers can advise.

i imagine the quote should include details on plumbing changes, expansion tank, etc, etc.

Boilers ain't cheap, i get that but saving money up front will cost u down the road.

 

[beenthere]

You could always DIY.

 

[joeplumber85]

There are always ads on Craigslist for 25+ year old boilers with "lots of life left". You can also find ads for unlicensed handymen who own a wrench, tape and gear clamps. Probably could save a lot of money if you are willing to go pick up the boiler and the handyman, and the new system might even hold water for a little bit.

 

[jimn]

8 years ago a high end (Basi, Solaia)three pass low water design boiler with a Beckett burner cost me 7000 dollars. A neighbor had a similar unit recently installed (Connecticut) and that was nearly 10,000 in today's market. Boilers all over the place in quality , efficiency etc. 8000 grand does not sound in reasonable to me. I was always under the impression Slant Fin was the low end merchandise. By the way the Solia boiler uses about 60 percent of the oil my old energy hog used. I go the bank every year with the fuel savings