Hi all. New here. Been lookin for answers for days(weeks),done almost all I can think of and instead of fixing the initial trouble,which I thought I had,now today my compressor decided to completely and very unspectacularly,die... I guess?? Honestly,I'm hoping its something I'm just overlooking?? We recently moved. Before that I was doing suspension work on my truck,welding,grinding,cutting,sanding,etc. My compressor isn't new,bought used,but was working fine. We moved,and I was gonna get back to building my truck. I have air bags in the front of the truck so far so needed to manually raise the truck to clean under and make sure nothin got hurt during the move,also had to air up tires on my car and 3 wheelers. So,I pulled the compressor out,blew it off first,then went and aired stuff up with the hose.. When I was done I went back in the garage and noticed compressor sounded different. So I was looking it over while it was still filling and noticed the pressure guages were lower than they usually are,one was shaking alot? I popped the air hose off and the pitch changed again...normal with valve closed I think? But garage door light went off right then and I noticed a smell,kinda electric/plastic burning,then noticed lil sparks flying out the fan,exhuast area of the cover,and it was heated up pretty good. So I turned it off,let the air all out and took the top off to check it out. Nothing outta the ordinary?? Just a old well used compressor?? Plugged it in,turned it on and looks like a circle of sparks when its on,with the black fan/motor shield on anyways?? I took that off too and the sparks were around the brush areas? All spins smoothly by hand? Brushes themselves are bout inch an a half long normally,only worn down maybe quarter or half inch?? Lotta brush life left,springs work good,worn smooth,no chips,no grooves in the plates they ride on. Plates were a bit browner than the new shiny copper look. The one thing bothered me was the cord on the compressor. Someone clipped it with a cutting tool I guess? P.O. Retwisted and taped up the cord. Didn't like it. Also they put one of those "fancy" rebuildable plugs on the cord too. During my searches for the arcing problem,took the plug apart cuz the ground prong was loose? Read bad ground could cause sparks?? Anyways,I ordered a new cord. Before I had removed the old one the compressor still ran,sparked but ran?? While messing with it I never started it longer than a second at a time just to see if sparking stopped. While waiting for the new cord I cleaned the comutator plates?? That what they're called?? I'm a gas engine person,sorry. Cleaned the brushes,or just made sure the springs worked ok,and I lightly polished the brass plates heard the tarnish might cause sparks too?? Lastly I just put the cord on this morning. Got it last night in the mail. After plugging it in at worst I was expecting the compressor to start up and still be sparking?? Instead I turned the switch on and got a small spark,the motor didn't try to spin?? I turned it off,checked connections,flipped the thing on on again and nothing?? Again, nothing...then a small wisp of smoke,really small, poofed up from what looked like underside of the motor?? Sorry so detailed. I'm very thorough. I'm hoping the answer is in the details?? Is my compressor savable,or dead?? All day I tried everything... I don't know much but what I've read about oil free compressors and motors? Not sure if there's a reset?? I even tried putting the crappy old cord back on...no go?? Was that wisp of smoke a fuse? Relay,fusable link??? Or the soul leaving my poor compressor?? Hope someone reads this and at least gives me more things to try?? Help,anyone!!! Lol. Is it time to find a new compressor I can't afford,or can this one be saved?? I did find one other issue when I took it apart... The ring,or whatever on the piston has a half inch sliver missing so that's gonna not help fill the tank proper if I do fix the motor?? Anyways,dead tired. If u read this,awesome!!! Tell me there's a reset... Something?? Thanks. Goodnight. Respects to all do it yourselfers out there!! U can do it... Get-R-Done!!
5hp 13gal 120v camp haus air compressor electrical problems...
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Got a model #
Not sure what your trying to decribe about that "ring, or whatever on the piston"
If the ring on the piston broke you'll never get pressure and may well have scored the cylinder wall.
Opened it up enough to get to the commentator yet?
Yes a dental pick to clean out between the segments.
Use a volt ohm meter set on Ohms to test from one segment to the other to see if one is shorted out.
Not sure what your trying to decribe about that "ring, or whatever on the piston"
If the ring on the piston broke you'll never get pressure and may well have scored the cylinder wall.
Opened it up enough to get to the commentator yet?
Yes a dental pick to clean out between the segments.
Use a volt ohm meter set on Ohms to test from one segment to the other to see if one is shorted out.
thanks for replies,ill try to shorten it up...
Thanks for replies. Sorry it was long,sometimes it happens...
My CH compressors model # is WL650102AJ. The pump# is WL390100AJ.
Yes I have broken it down to test the opposite sides around the commentator. I'm not sure I was getting correct readings? They all seemed about close to the same all around? Took a few tries to make sure. As for the "ring" around the piston,there's not a huge piece missing,its a tiny sliver along the edge,but no scoring in the cylindar walls.
As for why the motor wont turn on at all after being lightly cleaned and a new cord put on I am stumped?? Everything turns nice and smooth with no catching spots.. I'm in northern California,not sure how that helps,but just goin off answers to my post. Trying to learn a lil extra always,some forums are different. So apologies for lengthy 1st post. Was gonna erase and revise but not sure how..
Anyways,are there certain numbers,or spikes I should look for testing the commentator pads? And is there things I can check at on off switch? I'm not sure powers getting past there. Maybe tripped something? Thanks again.
Thanks for replies. Sorry it was long,sometimes it happens...
My CH compressors model # is WL650102AJ. The pump# is WL390100AJ.
Yes I have broken it down to test the opposite sides around the commentator. I'm not sure I was getting correct readings? They all seemed about close to the same all around? Took a few tries to make sure. As for the "ring" around the piston,there's not a huge piece missing,its a tiny sliver along the edge,but no scoring in the cylindar walls.
As for why the motor wont turn on at all after being lightly cleaned and a new cord put on I am stumped?? Everything turns nice and smooth with no catching spots.. I'm in northern California,not sure how that helps,but just goin off answers to my post. Trying to learn a lil extra always,some forums are different. So apologies for lengthy 1st post. Was gonna erase and revise but not sure how..
Anyways,are there certain numbers,or spikes I should look for testing the commentator pads? And is there things I can check at on off switch? I'm not sure powers getting past there. Maybe tripped something? Thanks again.
It's very rare to find a compressor this size that has a universal (brush type) motor, but this one does indeed have one......
From the description of sparks around the commutator, I'd say that either the brushes are worn out or, less likely, one or more of the commutator bars has shorted.
Typically, brushes wear to about 1/3 their original length. When they wear out, they are not quite in contact with the commutator, hence the blue ring of sparks and the odd smell.
If all the bars on the commutator look the same, it's likely ok. If 2 (or more) bars are shorted, it's usually pretty obvious. The black wear on them should look the same on each bar. It'll look sorta burnt on any that are shorted.
Often, simply replacing brushes is not enough, the armature needs to be turned in a lathe and the mica undercut.
The test here is actually pretty easy, simply feel how deep the black part of the bars has worn, and more importantly, is the mica insulation between the bars above, even with or below the bars.
On the bare copper part of the bars, the mica is below the bars, so they are the high part. This is important as the brushes need to ride on the bars, not the mica. If the bars are worn to the point that the mica is even with or higher than the copper, there'll be a slight gap between the brush and the copper. Lots of sparks........and eventually the heat will melt the mica and the bars will become uneven. It's very expensive to fix this.......
Rob.
From the description of sparks around the commutator, I'd say that either the brushes are worn out or, less likely, one or more of the commutator bars has shorted.
Typically, brushes wear to about 1/3 their original length. When they wear out, they are not quite in contact with the commutator, hence the blue ring of sparks and the odd smell.
If all the bars on the commutator look the same, it's likely ok. If 2 (or more) bars are shorted, it's usually pretty obvious. The black wear on them should look the same on each bar. It'll look sorta burnt on any that are shorted.
Often, simply replacing brushes is not enough, the armature needs to be turned in a lathe and the mica undercut.
The test here is actually pretty easy, simply feel how deep the black part of the bars has worn, and more importantly, is the mica insulation between the bars above, even with or below the bars.
On the bare copper part of the bars, the mica is below the bars, so they are the high part. This is important as the brushes need to ride on the bars, not the mica. If the bars are worn to the point that the mica is even with or higher than the copper, there'll be a slight gap between the brush and the copper. Lots of sparks........and eventually the heat will melt the mica and the bars will become uneven. It's very expensive to fix this.......
Rob.
thanks Rob.
Thanks. That definitely adds a couple steps to go back and recheck. The wear on the brushes is less than the opposite of what u describe,I think. Instead of being worn down to 1/3 left there's still well over 3/4 of both brushes left. As for the discoloration of the bars,before I cleaned them they were pretty evenly lightly tarnished,or whatever its called. As far as I could tell they were all pretty smooth and even. I'm not 100% on whether they're raised up like they're supposed to be,or worn down flat,so I will have to go back over it again and check all u mentioned in order. More steps than I found elsewhere so that's a good start. Can I check with my multi meter if powers actually getting to and past the on off switch and also to the motor itself?? I forget which setting it has to be on for household electric so it don't fry the meter??(done it on accident before) reason I ask is I have alot of numbers,settings and other crap going through my head. I've been going over electrical on my motorcycle lately so switching from 12v to 120 is,well,I forgot?? Lol. Do I just leave it on ohms setting?? Lost book to multi meter. Using a cen tech,the yellow one. Anyways. Thanks for the extra stuff to check out. After a $20 cord for a $50 compressor,if I can't fix it myself ill be needing to find another compressor.... That means more junk in the garage I can't toss cuz its worth somethin somewhere?? Bummed. Need compressor 5 days ago. Motorcycle exhuast ain't gonna remove and rebuild itself.... Thanks rob. Nate.
Thanks. That definitely adds a couple steps to go back and recheck. The wear on the brushes is less than the opposite of what u describe,I think. Instead of being worn down to 1/3 left there's still well over 3/4 of both brushes left. As for the discoloration of the bars,before I cleaned them they were pretty evenly lightly tarnished,or whatever its called. As far as I could tell they were all pretty smooth and even. I'm not 100% on whether they're raised up like they're supposed to be,or worn down flat,so I will have to go back over it again and check all u mentioned in order. More steps than I found elsewhere so that's a good start. Can I check with my multi meter if powers actually getting to and past the on off switch and also to the motor itself?? I forget which setting it has to be on for household electric so it don't fry the meter??(done it on accident before) reason I ask is I have alot of numbers,settings and other crap going through my head. I've been going over electrical on my motorcycle lately so switching from 12v to 120 is,well,I forgot?? Lol. Do I just leave it on ohms setting?? Lost book to multi meter. Using a cen tech,the yellow one. Anyways. Thanks for the extra stuff to check out. After a $20 cord for a $50 compressor,if I can't fix it myself ill be needing to find another compressor.... That means more junk in the garage I can't toss cuz its worth somethin somewhere?? Bummed. Need compressor 5 days ago. Motorcycle exhuast ain't gonna remove and rebuild itself.... Thanks rob. Nate.
Check the brush springs, they need to hold the brushes against the commutator pretty firmly. These have a tendency to overheat and loose their temper (springiness).
Yes, it's easy to use your meter to check stuff like switches and motors.
First, the Ohms settings are used when no power is applied. This is nothing more than an answer to the question.....will power flow? Set the meter to the lowest Ω (Ohms). Touch the two probes together. The reading should be pretty low, like less than 2Ω.
Now, put one probe on one prong (not the ground prong.....it's round or U-shaped) of the cord and the other probe on the other prong (again, not the ground). It should read less than 20Ω.
If it reads infinite (the same as it read with the probes not touching anything), then go further up the line. Pressure switch, on-off switch, etc. Eventually, you'll be reading across the motor itself.
If the motor reads no Ω, turn it a bit by hand. If it's good, it'll generate a small amount of power, but not enough to hurt the meter, and the display will sorta go wild. If you can't get the meter to read anything at the motor, then the motor is bad.
All these tests are done with no power applied, and are completely safe. There's not enough power in the meter to hurt anyone.
Yes, it's easy to use your meter to check stuff like switches and motors.
First, the Ohms settings are used when no power is applied. This is nothing more than an answer to the question.....will power flow? Set the meter to the lowest Ω (Ohms). Touch the two probes together. The reading should be pretty low, like less than 2Ω.
Now, put one probe on one prong (not the ground prong.....it's round or U-shaped) of the cord and the other probe on the other prong (again, not the ground). It should read less than 20Ω.
If it reads infinite (the same as it read with the probes not touching anything), then go further up the line. Pressure switch, on-off switch, etc. Eventually, you'll be reading across the motor itself.
If the motor reads no Ω, turn it a bit by hand. If it's good, it'll generate a small amount of power, but not enough to hurt the meter, and the display will sorta go wild. If you can't get the meter to read anything at the motor, then the motor is bad.
All these tests are done with no power applied, and are completely safe. There's not enough power in the meter to hurt anyone.
Thanks. Is it normal for the meters to have a reading,say 0.42 when u first touch the tips to what you're testing,and then it just goes back to zero's after it gets the reading? If so that's the confusing part? If its supposed to hold a reading then something's up with my meter?? Battery dead maybe,or a short in the meter? It gets a reading at first contact then goes to zero's right after?? Brand new meter too!! What a week. Lol.
I don't have anything to add except that I love the manufacturer's BS horsepower ratings.
I guarantee that is actually a fractional HP motor. They invented a value called "peak horsepower" which is based on how much current a locked rotor will draw. It has nothing to do power the motor can optimally deliver.
I guarantee that is actually a fractional HP motor. They invented a value called "peak horsepower" which is based on how much current a locked rotor will draw. It has nothing to do power the motor can optimally deliver.
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It seems to me it may be a possibility the commutator bars ( the copper plates on the armature you cleaned ) may be worn down to the Mica ( Mica, that insulating material between the communicator bars ). If so, grind the teeth set from a hack saw blade end about an inch long and saw between the bars to reduce mica height about a 64th of an inch below the bars. Avoid touching the connection of the windings and the bars.
Yes, that's normal. The meter is actually reading the resistance of the leads.
Plus, not many meters can read resistance below 1Ω with any sort of accuracy. Well, not many normal ones anyhow; one of the meters I have can, but it cost a ton of $$$.
Um.. Yea,I'm pretty sure almost all "ratings" printed on all of the shiny loud stuff we all love to buy is mostly BS. That's just life. If you hype it,they will buy it!! But to get correct info on problem solving our "POWERFUL" cra...i mean equipment,u gotta give others the info stamped on the side so ya don't get random fix answers to different equipment that's kinda like what you're workin on. It is a good random point though. Love it when my buddy shows me his expensive a$$ 5000 watt "competition" car stereo system with four 12" subwoofers that will supposedly make your eardrums bleed if ur in the car too long with the volume up past 12... Hilarious!! Not that I doubt it cuz I love all types of power?? Its just funny cuz my old stereo system with an actual 720 watt amp with two actual 500watt 10" speakers I paid $35 for new is twice as loud as my buddy's"pro" special tuned stereo,and I can drive my car an turn it all the way up with no bass on?? No bloody ears,no huge price tag,just proper power ratings... He swears I'm hiding speakers or amps or somethin?? Haha. MORE POWER!!!! GRRRR!!
I was wonderin about that though.... I been searching for replacement motors,motor parts,or just another compressor?? I found a supposed 2 hp 120psi lil ugly 3gallon pancake type camp haus compressors new for $45-$50? One like mine too(hotdog)? 3 gallon.. Can't I just put a motor+pump off one of those on my tank and be good to go?? Looks all the same size,shape, looks the same??
Only problem is, I need my compressor to run a die grinder,small sander,two different smaller cutting tools,and a paint gun I use for small painting projects,and a air ratchet?? This compressor ran all those things without too much trouble?? Had to take a break a few times with my bigger cup gun,other than that it was a pretty good compressor. I wish I knew of a small cheap one that would run all those things every once in awhile,without needing breaks to fill every 2 mins,and wouldn't burn up in 6 months of light use?? Ratings do suck. And finding the truth usually means wasting money... Its a conspiracy against the garage warrior!! Bastards!!!
lol....This is true!!
At 100% efficiency and 100% power factor, 20 amps at 120 volts = 3.2 HP.
Generally speaking, a 2 HP motor will push a 20 amp 120 volt circuit pretty much to its limit, even if it's well-built and pretty efficient.
You'd need to have perpetual motion in order to get 5 HP from a 20 amp 120 volt circuit........
Another possibility is to get the 3 gallon one and connect it with a hose to your 13 gallon tank. Then you have a 16 gallon tank.
But yes, if you can get the new pump/motor mounted onto the 13 gallon tank without having to drill or weld the actual tank, it's not hard to connect the piping and controls.
I've built about 40 or so compressors from scratch. The main things to watch is don't exceed the pressure rating of the compressor pump or the tank, and don't drill or weld the tank. Drilling or welding the top plate (on top of the tank) is ok, just not the tank itself.
One possible problem to using the 3 gallon compressor with the 13 gallon tank is that it might overheat from pumping for a long time. Turning the pressure down a bit will help a lot here.
Hey senior. Thanks. Went to look at the copper plates... Very thin gaps,and they are nice and deep. Cleaned between gaps with a piece of paper,all I could fit besides the end of a feeler guage? But even gaps,smooth bars,and tops of bars nowhere near worn down to the mica?? I decided to look further in,I know its a dumb question but what's the bigger part inside the square magneto type part?? Just bigger commentator plates with ridges instead of being smooth copper?? I'll learn the technical names for the parts again...anyways that part I hadn't pulled out yet and it was lightly covered with I guess rust?? Had some trouble getting readings there till I brushed off the rusty crap... Wondering if that could be the problem area?? What should I look for problem wise on that part?? Thanks again senior. Nate.
UPDATE...ITS ALIVE...sorta??
Had a few busy days...forgot password and couldn't figure why I couldn't get back on site?? Anyways,that last idea session sparked a complete tear down to bare tank and loose wires. Lots of cleaning,and testing,and reassembling mostly. Had it mostly,not quite together and still couldn't find an issue?
Commutator plates are well raised from mica,cleaned between anyways. Brushes are springy and 3/4 left on em. Further back from the lil copper/brass plates,on the similar bigger round serrated kinda plates(sorry not sure the name?) was a rusty coating there,hard to get a reading in spots,some minor chips here and there,seen worse. Cleaned that up,and inside the square part that goes round it.
I had all but threw it through the wall... And got a idea(not a good one) so I assembled it partly... Back to brushes put on and wires hooked up,etc...still nothing when I turned it on?? Had a jump wire I been using to test my motorcycles electrical... I know.. Not sounding good huh?? Well compressor plugged in,turned off, I pulled the cords black hot wire off the switch connection,inserted one end of my jump wire and clipped the other end straight to the connection on the top brush expecting sparks?? A meltdown.. Nothing.
Well,this means I have part of the on off switch bypassed. I turned the power switch and my compressor roared to life!! It turns on and off like normal this way,fills with air and all. Still sparks a lil,way less though. But I'm sure I can't use the compressor this way for work. But I still am unsure what the dang problem is?? One of the brush to motor wires have a fusable link or somethin that burnt?? Or a wire,1 of 2 between switch and brushes?? Head hurts...
Any ideas??? I know I'm right there!! Can taste victory... Help me out yall. Lol. Thanks to u all. This site is really helping. Good night.
Had a few busy days...forgot password and couldn't figure why I couldn't get back on site?? Anyways,that last idea session sparked a complete tear down to bare tank and loose wires. Lots of cleaning,and testing,and reassembling mostly. Had it mostly,not quite together and still couldn't find an issue?
Commutator plates are well raised from mica,cleaned between anyways. Brushes are springy and 3/4 left on em. Further back from the lil copper/brass plates,on the similar bigger round serrated kinda plates(sorry not sure the name?) was a rusty coating there,hard to get a reading in spots,some minor chips here and there,seen worse. Cleaned that up,and inside the square part that goes round it.
I had all but threw it through the wall... And got a idea(not a good one) so I assembled it partly... Back to brushes put on and wires hooked up,etc...still nothing when I turned it on?? Had a jump wire I been using to test my motorcycles electrical... I know.. Not sounding good huh?? Well compressor plugged in,turned off, I pulled the cords black hot wire off the switch connection,inserted one end of my jump wire and clipped the other end straight to the connection on the top brush expecting sparks?? A meltdown.. Nothing.
Well,this means I have part of the on off switch bypassed. I turned the power switch and my compressor roared to life!! It turns on and off like normal this way,fills with air and all. Still sparks a lil,way less though. But I'm sure I can't use the compressor this way for work. But I still am unsure what the dang problem is?? One of the brush to motor wires have a fusable link or somethin that burnt?? Or a wire,1 of 2 between switch and brushes?? Head hurts...
Any ideas??? I know I'm right there!! Can taste victory... Help me out yall. Lol. Thanks to u all. This site is really helping. Good night.
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