[William Jack]

My floors have started to cup about 8 months ago (about 8 months after living in the house) This is a new build in NC. Had a flooring inspector come out and determine that the flooring was put down on a sub floor that was too wet. Floor is only 1 1/2 years old. Builder screwed this up and didn't properly acclimate. He is not willing to take any responsibility, but thats a whole other story. The floor is over a finished basement. Temps are 65-73 depending on the time of year and the humidity is between 40-50 year round. If i want to sand and finish how do i know the wood is done cupping? Also it has a micro bevel so a lot needs to be taken off to remove that and wouldn't that look bad around cased openings/doors and newel posts? I have had 2 flooring people say that won't sand and finish because they are afraid it will crown, and one other say no problem it can be sanded and finished. He was the only one to do moisture readings on the hardwoods. they were no more than 1% different top to bottom of the hardwood (most around 7.2 to 7.8). Do i go the sand and finish route, or do I rip it all out and start over?

 

[mark sr]

How did he determine the floor was too wet at the time of install??
I've painted a LOT of new residential houses with hardwood flooring. By the time flooring time came around the subfloor was always dry. Occasionally something gets spilt but that shouldn't be a big deal. A major plumbing leak could be.

 

[William Jack]

Inspector used a pin meter. He hammers it through the hardwood floor, to the sub floor and checks the moisture level at the top of the sub floor and then 1/2" in the sub floor. Moisture level was over the accepted 2% variance (NWFA) from the sub floor to the hardwood floor. The floor isn't "visibly wet" it's the "moisture content" of the sub floor. It encompasses the entire wood floor (1500 sq ft) there are no leaks. If anything leaked my ceiling in the basement would show water damage.

 

[SW Dweller]

Might want to talk to the MFG of the flooring.
I would be running a dehumidifier 24-7-365 with the humidity that high.

I worked around preforming arts theaters in the past. They all have the building normalized and the stock for the flooring inside for 30 days before installation. I followed that when I put down my wood floors. Except for the dog nail scratches the floor (doggie door area) was fine after 8 years.

I am wondering why the water would be evidenced only on the ceiling? Does that mean that there is no water lower like a sink or toilet? Does not take much of a drip to leak under the floor to have capilary action move it all over.

 

[mark sr]

A moisture meter can determine the moisture under the floor now but I question how it would be known that the subfloor was damp 1.5 yrs ago.

 

[William Jack]

Might want to talk to the MFG of the flooring.
I would be running a dehumidifier 24-7-365 with the humidity that high.

I worked around preforming arts theaters in the past. They all have the building normalized and the stock for the flooring inside for 30 days before installation. I followed that when I put down my wood floors. Except for the dog nail scratches the floor (doggie door area) was fine after 8 years.

I am wondering why the water would be evidenced only on the ceiling? Does that mean that there is no water lower like a sink or toilet? Does not take much of a drip to leak under the floor to have capilary action move it all over.

The humidity level is fine. Acceptable levels per the NWFA are 30-50%. Definitely no leaks. floor is cupping all over. Places where there are no water sources. The builder did not acclimate wood correctly when delivered and then put the hardwood down on subfloor that has too high of a moisture content compared to the hardwood. Subfloor and hardwood floor should be within 2% of each other when installed. They were not. hardwood sucked up the moisture from the subfloor. which caused the cupping.

 

[William Jack]

A moisture meter can determine the moisture under the floor now but I question how it would be known that the subfloor was damp 1.5 yrs ago.

The moistuer is trapped between the subfloor and hardwood floor. It has no where to go. Accept into my hardwood. The moisture content would have been even higher than it is now (which is still too high) when installed.

 

[SPS-1]

If at all possible, I would keep my eye on it for a few more seasons before refinishing.

I would have expected this to be the driest part of the year, so I would have expected the floor to flatten again about this time of year. You want to know its not moving with the seasons before trying to refinish.

Yep, could get interesting where the micro-bevels run into baseboard moldings.

 

[William Jack]

If at all possible, I would keep my eye on it for a few more seasons before refinishing.

I would have expected this to be the driest part of the year, so I would have expected the floor to flatten again about this time of year. You want to know its not moving with the seasons before trying to refinish.

Yep, could get interesting where the micro-bevels run into baseboard moldings.

Thank you, maybe end of Summer?. It's been a wet winter in North Carolina this year. Lots of rain. Actually raining again today. Humidity 80% today. UGH.
My shoe molding will cover anything by the baseboards. Just worried about the door casings and newel posts. You have to sand almost 3/32 of an inch off to remove the micro bevel, so i'm told...

 

[mark sr]

I'm still mystified as to why the subfloor would have been damp. The hardwood doesn't get put down until the house is dried in and the drywall along with most of the painting is done.

There are 2 ways to deal with a gap under the door casing/jamb - caulk or cut and insert a sliver of jamb and casing into the gap. The latter is usually reserved for larger gaps.

 

[PBR Street Gang]

The humidity level is fine. Acceptable levels per the NWFA are 30-50%.

Correct.

 

[SPS-1]

The humidity level may be acceptable now, but if the flooring was not acclimated before installing, you can get cupping or gaps.

If pre-finished, it probably has a top layer of aluminum oxide dust. Makes it more scratch resistant. Hard as heck and supposed to be a lot of fun to sand through, but I suppose the pros that quoted it are aware of that.

If you end up replacing it, consider engineered hardwood. Much more tolerant of changes in humidity.

 

[William Jack]

I'm still mystified as to why the subfloor would have been damp. The hardwood doesn't get put down until the house is dried in and the drywall along with most of the painting is done.

There are 2 ways to deal with a gap under the door casing/jamb - caulk or cut and insert a sliver of jamb and casing into the gap. The latter is usually reserved for larger gaps.

Unfortunately it happens when builders are in a hurry. Even if a house is "dried in" it doesn't mean the subfloors moisture content is suitable for a hardwood floor to be installed. The subfloor and hardwood floor must be acclimated together with the HVAC on until the moisture levels are within 2%, which is the NWFA standard. As for the floor being "damp" it's not something you can see or touch. It's the "moisture content" of the wood. If a subfloor has a moisture level of 13% you can't feel that or see it. It wouldn't look or feel any different than a subfloor with a moisture level of 9%. The only way to know is to use a meter on the flooring. Builders/flooring installers should be checking the moisture content of the subfloor and hardwoods until they are within 2% of each other (i.e. 9.1% subfloor and 7.3% hardwood), then they can safely be installed. Especially with a 5" wide plank or wider. They are prone to cupping compared to smaller width planks. Hope I explained that well?
As for the door jambs, there wouldn't be a gap if I sand. There would be hardwood under/below the jambs and newel posts. So you would see the side of the sanded wood under the jambs, maybe up to 3/32". Maybe a little caulk and white trim paint could make it look ok? not sure...
I would have a gap if I remove the 3/4 wood floor I have now and say replace with a 3/8 engineered. Then I guess a sliver of jamb and/or caulk may be ok?

 

[William Jack]

The humidity level may be acceptable now, but if the flooring was not acclimated before installing, you can get cupping or gaps.

If pre-finished, it probably has a top layer of aluminum oxide dust. Makes it more scratch resistant. Hard as heck and supposed to be a lot of fun to sand through, but I suppose the pros that quoted it are aware of that.

If you end up replacing it, consider engineered hardwood. Much more tolerant of changes in humidity.

yep! Aluminum oxide, plus its hickory. no one is thrilled about sanding it!

 

[Bud9051]

"The floor is over a finished basement."
Is this floor in the basement or the floor above the basement? I see the end of a handrail in one of the pictures.

Bud

 

[a&b home]

Was the flooring glued or just nailed?
Wood floors over 3 1/2 inches wide need to be glued and nailed to avoid cupping.

 

[Missouri Bound]

Sounds like you are taking the right steps.
But definitely call the mfg. Very often they will send out a representative to check out your situation and give you recommendations.
It's just a phone call you need to make before moving ahead.
And don't chose a contractor that won't guarantee their work.
When I was a maintenance manager for a group of retail outlets it was normal for me to get the mfg. and the contractors together to work out a solution that both could guarantee.

 

[William Jack]

"The floor is over a finished basement."
Is this floor in the basement or the floor above the basement? I see the end of a handrail in one of the pictures.

Bud

yes the wood floor is over a finished basement.

 

[Bud9051]

My question is, is this floor IN THE BASEMENT over the concrete?

Bud

 

[William Jack]

Was the flooring glued or just nailed?
Wood floors over 3 1/2 inches wide need to be glued and nailed to avoid cupping.

I know that now. They were not glued, just nailed. I certainly would have paid the extra to have it glued and done correctly if i had been aware. Builder and floor company never mentioned it.