[kentannenbaum2]

I'm replacing an electric range that runs off of a combined 40/40 breaker in the panel. The stove's being replaced by propane and I want to split that circuit into two usable receptacles for a dish washer and microwave. I'm know I have to replace the heavy duty breaker with two smaller breakers but not sure how to handle the three wires connected to the old receptacle. Help is appreciated!
Thanks, Ken

 

[gregzoll]

It is a 40 amp circuit and you cannot make it a MWBC for outlets, unless you have the space to put in a large enough junction box and also have 4 wires. If only three, you need to just leave it, in case later on someone comes along and wants to go either with Dual fuel (gas for cooking, electric for backing & broiler).

You can get a 20 amp dual pole breaker, but it has to take that #8 or #6 wire that they used for it.

 

[rjniles]

How many wires in the existing receptacle? Colors? Any bare ones?

 

[kentannenbaum2]

The receptacle has three wires, black, brown and the bare silver twisted neutral. So from what Gregzoll wrote, there are dual pole 20amp breakers that would allow me to split the current, I'm guessing sharing the neutral and using the #6 wire that's already there. Correct?

 

[mm11]

You cannot reuse that wire for what you propose. There is not a neutral wire at your stove receptacle.

 

[kentannenbaum2]

I don't get it. Isn't the twisted silver bare wire that's connected to the silver terminal the neutral?

 

[gregzoll]

I don't get it. Isn't the twisted silver bare wire that's connected to the silver terminal the neutral?

It is a Bonded wire to the bus bar in the panel for both Grounds and Neutrals. You can use it as a ground, but you would end up with only one 120 vAC circuit.

How hard is it to pull new Romex up and just leave that old wiring there for the future? You can get covers that go over where the plug is. You would of course have to unhook the wire inside the panel and mark as dead circuit, same as inside the box for the wire. You can get the Scotch Kote, cloth tape, rubber tape and electrical tape at a local electrical warehouse, to terminate the ends.

 

[gregzoll]

The receptacle has three wires, black, brown and the bare silver twisted neutral. So from what Gregzoll wrote, there are dual pole 20amp breakers that would allow me to split the current, I'm guessing sharing the neutral and using the #6 wire that's already there. Correct?

Not with the three wires, you cannot use a 20 amp dual. Otherwise you would still have only a 240 vAC circuit. There are converters that you can get that plug in and step down the 240 to 120, so that you can use it for the ignition and clock circuit for the stove.

 

[kentannenbaum2]

The house is built on rock, there's no basement and no chance of pulling new wire. There's also no future because I AM the future...just bought the place so no reason to leave it as is.
Question is, why reduced to one 120v circuit when there are two hot wires? That's still okay but just asking.

 

[kentannenbaum2]

OK, I get it. So what comes out of the converter are probably #12 wires @ 15 or 20 amps.
Correct?

 

[rjniles]

The house is built on rock, there's no basement and no chance of pulling new wire. There's also no future because I AM the future...just bought the place so no reason to leave it as is.
Question is, why reduced to one 120v circuit when there are two hot wires? That's still okay but just asking.

You have 2 insulated wires and a bare ground. You do not have a neutral and cannot use the bare ground as a neutral.

 

[rjniles]

You have 2 insulated wires and a bare ground. You do not have a neutral and cannot use the bare ground as a neutral.

Even using the 2 insulated wires as a 120 volt circuit is a violation as the colors are wrong to use one as a neutral

 

[kentannenbaum2]

You know and I don't...what's perplexing to me is what I've read the twisted silver, probably aluminum, are both ground and neutral.

 

[kentannenbaum2]

About your last comment about wire colors, I'm not an electrician obviously, but for years I've reoriented wires with color tape to signify a change if needn't. Why is this different? Can't on the hots but assigned to the neutral bar? (I guess the problem could be it's a #6 wire and won't fit.)

 

[Arrow3030]

I do not recommend re purposing that cable for anything. If you're going to be there forever, how soon are you planning a kitchen reno?
You're on a slab so a new circuit from below isn't practical but what about attic access? Exterior walls with wiremold on interior walls is another option. There's always options to get a circuit to where you want, you have to know how to use material and what sacrifices you're willing to make.

 

[gregzoll]

Another vote for going along the attic. Run Metal Conduit to keep any critters from chewing on it, and pull THHN/THWN through it for the new circuits. Can transition to Romex at the junction boxes from the panel on one and from the other box to where you want the drop to come down through the wall.

Attic runs are fairly common with retofits on slabs.

 

[kentannenbaum2]

Exterior wiremold would be the only alternative but I'm doing so much to this place already I'd rather not go there or pay someone for it. Anyway, from what I'm gathering, looks like I can use the two hots, relabeling one for the neural. NOW, about the ground, this conversion from the #6 three wire receptacle is specifically to power a dishwasher which this house never had. So can I do one of these two options: 1) pigtail 12 gauge solid copper to the twisted aluminum and attach it to the ground bar (I see there are safe methods of combining the two metals) OR 2) tie into the copper water line servicing the dishwasher to create the ground. Listen, I'm a DIY but not a dummy. It's why I seek advice. Oh, I'm also not rich. Thanks.

 

[mm11]

Exterior wiremold would be the only alternative but I'm doing so much to this place already I'd rather not go there or pay someone for it. Anyway, from what I'm gathering, looks like I can use the two hots, relabeling one for the neural. NOW, about the ground, this conversion from the #6 three wire receptacle is specifically to power a dishwasher which this house never had. So can I do one of these two options: 1) pigtail 12 gauge solid copper to the twisted aluminum and attach it to the ground bar (I see there are safe methods of combining the two metals) OR 2) tie into the copper water line servicing the dishwasher to create the ground. Listen, I'm a DIY but not a dummy. It's why I seek advice. Oh, I'm also not rich. Thanks.

That would not be an option. You cannot use a water pipe as an equipment grounding conductor.

Make sure that when splicing the Al to Cu that you use a connector that is listed for the application.

 

[Oso954]

Anyway, from what I'm gathering, looks like I can use the two hots, relabeling one for the neural.

Reidentifying a #6 as a neutral is not permitted by code.

 

[joed]

The brown wire may actually be a discoloured white. I never heard of brown wires being cable in North America.