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Old 09-22-2015, 02:18 PM   #1
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Need advice on repair of siding and rot


Hey everyone, newcomer here. I have been doing DIY work for a number of years now for little things around the house.

I have an issue with my tudor house where a deficient gutter has caused the masonite siding and trim boards to rot. In addition, there is part of the ledgerboard/joist which is rotted. Now this floor has a 'slight' overhang over the first and I believe it is connected with 'lookout' joists as the board runs parallel to the interior joists.

For the repair, I have hardi siding vertical siding stucco, Azek 4" and 8" trim boards and 1/2" insulating foam.

My question lies on the joist. Do I cut it out and replace? It's pretty rotten in parts.



Do I need any additional support when cutting it out?

My repair plan is as follows:



Everywhere in red will get new siding and green is Azek trim boards. . There will be a new trim board in green where the new meets up with the old. (this is just a small section of a VERY large side so replacing it all isn't feasible). I will re-add foam board where needed and caulk all seams.

So thoughts on replacing the joist? Any other thoughts on the repair? I have all the materials ready to go.
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
I have an issue with my tudor house where a deficient gutter has caused the masonite siding and trim boards to rot. In addition, there is part of the ledgerboard/joist which is rotted. Now this floor has a 'slight' overhang over the first and I believe it is connected with 'lookout' joists as the board runs parallel to the interior joists.

For the repair, I have hardi siding vertical siding stucco, Azek 4" and 8" trim boards and 1/2" insulating foam.

My question lies on the joist. Do I cut it out and replace? It's pretty rotten in parts.

Do I need any additional support when cutting it out?

You should remove the bad siding to get a better idea of what you are dealing with. The rim joist needs more examination to see how much damage there is. Has all the rotten wood been removed or is there more? You need clean material all the way around. If there is cavity insulation, examine that. If wet, it has to be removed.

You don't need to support anything to remove siding. If the rim needs to be repaired, and it's a relatively small section, it may be possible to cut it out and replace. It depends on how much and what is sitting on the rim. Getting the rotten siding off will help with that step. (A photo from further back would help see the larger picture of the roof.)

But first, repair the leaking gutter. There is no point in repairing the siding if you haven't fixed the leak.
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:14 PM   #3
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You should remove the bad siding to get a better idea of what you are dealing with. The rim joist needs more examination to see how much damage there is. Has all the rotten wood been removed or is there more? You need clean material all the way around. If there is cavity insulation, examine that. If wet, it has to be removed.

You don't need to support anything to remove siding. If the rim needs to be repaired, and it's a relatively small section, it may be possible to cut it out and replace. It depends on how much and what is sitting on the rim. Getting the rotten siding off will help with that step. (A photo from further back would help see the larger picture of the roof.)

But first, repair the leaking gutter. There is no point in repairing the siding if you haven't fixed the leak.
I have a good roofer coming tomorrow to repair the gutter. The issue is a lack of a kickout and a bad drip edge.

Everything that is removed there is everything that could be removed without tools.

Wider angle. Everything above that red line is the roof.



The gap to see the insulation is TINY, I actually might open it up from the inside. I can see dirty insulation but thats likely from the air seepage.

Here is where the issue is with the gutter:



And 2 closeups before I removed anything (gutter fell)




The rim joist is paralell with the interior joists and attached to what I believe are lookout joists. It's so hard to see.

If you look close as the under pic, you can see the joists:

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Old 09-22-2015, 05:44 PM   #4
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I have a good roofer coming tomorrow to repair the gutter.
What's wrong with the gutter? What you need is someone well versed in both roofing and siding details to fix that mess.

That siding shouldn't be sitting on top of the roof like that. The entire area of siding below your red line needs to come off including any damaged sheathing and framing until you get back to clean wood (as mentioned) and then simply be put back together using proper flashing details.

You don't know what you have until it's all exposed.

You only need one contractor that knows what he's doing to handle all of it. More than one cook is a mistake imo.

BTW, Welcome to the forum bmathews.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:05 PM   #5
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pvc should not be painted that dark,look for a product called Boral
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:11 PM   #6
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Thanks for the welcome. I know that the proper way would be to replace up the the red line and I could do it but I can't lift a 4x8 sheet 60lb+ hardy panel up there. The major rot is very concentrated to the vertical gutter area. There isn't wood sheathing on the house. It's 1" foam

The gutter issue is there's no kick out so the water runs down the right side down the siding and trim.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:15 PM   #7
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guys have all given you great advice. Needs a kick-out detail, proper flashing, and proper clearance from the roof.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:20 PM   #8
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Thanks. So back to the one big question. Cut out that rim joist and put a new piece in? Or leave it? Probably 8" of serious rot in it.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:42 PM   #9
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I would cut it out and stitch in a new section.
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:08 PM   #10
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It needs proper sidewall step flashing. You can have trim at the sidewall, but not in contact with the shingles. The roofing and siding sit on top of the flashing, with the siding acting as counterflashing. The trim is merely the termination of the siding and there is a small vertical gap between the trim and shingles, fully covered by the step flashing. The roof underlayment (felt) runs up behind the moisture barrier on the wall (housewrap, felt or building paper), the step flashing is on top of that, with the wall moisture barrier draining into it. Don't nail through the sidewall flashing. The shingles which were temporarily removed are replaced over the top of the step flashing.

A small kickout can be formed using the last section of step flashing if required to direct drainage into the gutter. If more than 10-15 degrees is needed, then your gutter isn't installed properly and should be relocated.








Your joists may run in either direction relative to the rim board. Some demo of the siding and investigation is needed to know what exactly is going on. Temporary support of floor if perpendicular, of wall if parallel.

Expect to need new cavity insulation, new siding panels with exterior insulation to match, new rim (dimensional or LSL), step flashing at roof, temporary removal of shingle coursing, new trim to match.

I agree with the assessment that having one competent contractor handle this is better than trying to be your own general contractor.

Last edited by keymaster; 09-23-2015 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:10 PM   #11
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I did take a look up there and there is step flashing but there must be gaps in the flashing. There is also no gap between that trim piece and the roof.

There are really 2 issues here. The step flashing might partially contribute to the lower siding rot but I think the lack of kickout at the end is the real major issue.

Now, on the inside of that sidewall with the poor step flashing in the house there is drywall that clearly has water damage likely from a deficiency in the step flashing. I will get that fixed, but right now I am trying to fix the area I have already ripped out before it rains again..

I was going to work on it today but have been sick as a dog all day. I plan on cutting out 2-3ft of the rim joist and stitch a new one in there. Then I will replace all of the 1" foam sheathing, siding (with Hardipanel) and finally the trim, use caulk and spray foam to seal all joints. (as well as replace the gutters and add the kickout).

I had a plan of replacing the siding and trim all along, my big question was the need to replace the section of the rim joist because there is a small overhang there.

The more complex part of pulling the shingle off the roof and re-doing the step flashing I will hire out. This was already fixed once before and was just patched which made it worse. While I am not going the whole 9 yards and replacing the 4'x8' panel, I am removing all rotted siding and wood and the azek and hardisiding will be much more durable.

Sometime down the road I want to re-side the whole house but that will cost me $Texas.
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
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pvc should not be painted that dark,look for a product called Boral
+1 on this
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Old 09-23-2015, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
pvc should not be painted that dark,look for a product called Boral
Painted like this...?

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Old 09-27-2015, 11:28 PM   #14
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Add Z-flashing over the new horizontal upper/lower trim pieces, upper one level with the fascia board that will be tucked behind the gutter end-cap. Fix the roof/wall flashing as said.

Gary
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