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Old 05-14-2020, 06:59 PM   #1
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Need advice on re-roof proposals


I have a combination roof, an A-frame on about 70% of the house and a flat roof on the other 30%. Shingles on the A-frame roof and asphalt on the flat deck.

I have narrowed down my options to two estimates. Their prices are about the same, what I need help with is to evaluate the two proposals, is one better than the other? Proposal #2 seems to be more detailed but after reading it three times I am still unclear what is to be done on the sloped roof and what is to be done on the flat deck. What is an "interply" anyway?

PROPOSAL #1
REROOF 7 sq. Flat roof and 21 sq. Shingle roof:
1. Obtain and post re-roof permit onsite. Permit fee is included.
2. Remove and/or sweep existing roof to a clean, workable surface and dispose of debris.
3. Replace damaged lumber at $4.50 per board foot includes carpentry. Up to the first 100 board feet will be included at no charge.
4. Install pitch pans, lead stack flashing and galvanized vents where applicable.
5. Install wall or tie-in flashing as needed.
6. Install valley metal in all valleys.
SLOPE ROOF Shingles:
7. Install # 30 base sheet, mechanically fastened per code.
8. Install perimeter eave drip metal. Choice of mill, white or brown.
9. Optional with shingles: Install Polyglass IR-Xe self-adhered modified interply.
10. Install GAF fungus resistant, fiberglass/asphalt shingles.
FLAT ROOF:
11. Install # 30 base sheet, mechanically fastened per code.
12. Install 2 plies of Glassply-IV fiberglass felt with type IV hot asphalt.
13. Install perimeter eave drip metal. 0
14. Install Class-A fire-rated granule surfaced fiberglass cap sheet with type IV hot asphalt.
60 month warranty

PROPOSAL #2
A. Cut and remove all existing roofing down to the plywood deck. Remove only as much roofing in one working day period that can be replaced. Water cut off is to be installed at the end of each working day to assure a watertight condition.
B. Replace all rotted plywood sheathing up to 75 square feet at no additional charge. Any additional replacement of the plywood decking beyond what’s stated will be at the cost of $3.50 per square foot or replace all 1” X 6” tongue and groove decking up to 50 linear feet at no additional charge. Any additional replacement of tongue and groove beyond what’s stated will be at the cost of $ 4.50 per linear foot. In the event that the property needs both plywood and tongue and groove decking replacement, then only one item of non-chargeable wood replacement will apply. Any plank, fire rated plywood, fascia, beams, trusses, or soffit replacement is not included in the quote.
C. Remove all debris and cart away.

DECK SECUREMENT:
Re-nail sheathing to meet local codes. Screws are not included, if applicable.
A.S.T.M. 30 LB. FELTS:
Install 2 plies of 30 lb. felts which will be mechanically fastened in accordance with local building codes. According to the manufacturer's specifications, two plies of 30 lb. felts are to be installed for any slope or roof pitch under 4”/12”. When comparing prices, if your slope or roof pitch is less than 4”/12”, please be sure that all contractors are using two plies of 30 lb. felts on your roof.
SHINGLES:
Install GAF 25 year 3 Tab fiberglass fungus resistant asphalt shingles. Shingles are to be mechanically fastened with Metro Dade approval Ring Shank roofing nails in strict accordance with the manufacturer and local building department specifications. The available color is to be determined by the owner.
BASE SHEET: ON FLAT DECK:
Install 1 ply of 28 lb. fiberglass base sheet to the entire surface of the roof, lapping each sheet four inches over the underlying sheet and six inches over the end laps. Each sheet is to be installed without voids and 100% mechanically fastened to the deck.
INTERPLY:
Install 1 ply of fiberglass felt embedded in a minimum uniform layer of 28lbs of Domestic Type IV hot asphalt per 100 square feet as per code.


MODIFIED BITUMEN ROOFING SYSTEM: FOR FLAT DECK:
Install granular surface modified bitumen roofing with plasticized bituminous and modified with elastomers. Material is to be reinforced with a high strength polyester.


MISCELLANEOUS: FOR SLOPE AND FLAT DECKS:
1. Install new lead flashings on all plumbing pipe vents through roof.
2. Install 26 gauge galvanized mill finish, brown or white drip edge metal flashing.
3. Install 26 gauge galvanized mill finish 16" valley metal nailed every four inches.
4. To assure a proper seal, install an additional three course roofing system consisting of one ply of asphalt saturated membrane embedded between two layers of roof flashing cement on the valley metal.
5. When applying new roofing, all necessary metals will also receive one coat of cut asphalt primer for proper adhesion.
7. For additional ultraviolet protection, install loose granules on all seams of new roofing.
8. Remove and replace 26 gauge galvanized all-purpose two way vents.
Five year warranty on all labor by the roofing company.
25 year manufacturer limited warranty by shingle manufacturer.
10 year limited material warranty form manufacturer on Modified Bitumen.

Both of them do not include fascia, which is to be added at $8 per LF.

Last edited by miamicuse; 05-14-2020 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:27 PM   #2
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


Did you specify cheap 25 year GAF 3 tab shingles? That is in the bottom end of what is available today. There are architectural shingles with 30 year to 50 year to lifetime warranties and wind ratings of 130 mph.
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Old 05-15-2020, 04:15 AM   #3
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


For Florida there are options as to the reflectivity of the shingles to reduce the heat that the shingles absorb from the sun. I didn't read all of the post as I'm not a roofer and can not judge those quotes, but reflectivity is important in the south.

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Old 05-15-2020, 06:23 AM   #4
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


They are bidding nearly the exact same thing.
Do you have anyone that can refer another roofer to you? 3 bids is a good number, not too many to confuse things.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:42 AM   #5
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


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Originally Posted by PatChap View Post
They are bidding nearly the exact same thing.
Do you have anyone that can refer another roofer to you? 3 bids is a good number, not too many to confuse things.

I did have a third roofer but he cancelled the appointment and the rescheduled estimate is two weeks out and I wanted to make a decision sooner, as permit processing is slow so this can easily drag on for a while.


Also, proposal #2 was prepared by their office based on satellite photos, they did not show up on site, so they said the estimate is just an estimate and once I decide to go ahead they will have an onsite visit to verify dimensions and do a look over and at that time there may be price adjustments.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:15 AM   #6
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


What I would really like some help with is to understand what the layers will be used on the sloped roof and the flat deck. Below is my interpretation from reading the proposals.

PROPOSAL #1
SLOPE ROOF Shingles:
7. Install # 30 base sheet, mechanically fastened per code.
9. Optional with shingles: Install Polyglass IR-Xe self-adhered modified interply.
10. Install GAF fungus resistant, fiberglass/asphalt shingles.
So, this means on the slope roof, it is one layer of #30 base sheet, then the shingles. An interply is optional with additional cost, what is an interply? I just called them and asked and they offered two options, one is to have a double #30 underlayment, for an added $840. Another is to have a #30 & SA-SWB for an added $1680, and I am not sure what the second one even means.

FLAT ROOF:
11. Install # 30 base sheet, mechanically fastened per code.
12. Install 2 plies of Glassply-IV fiberglass felt with type IV hot asphalt.
14. Install Class-A fire-rated granule surfaced fiberglass cap sheet with type IV hot asphalt.
So, on the flat roof, they will have one #30 base sheet, then two plys of Glassply-IV hoy mopped, then a fiberglass cap sheet with granules. A total of 4 layers. Correct?

PROPOSAL #2
DECK SECUREMENT:
Re-nail sheathing to meet local codes. Screws are not included, if applicable.
A.S.T.M. 30 LB. FELTS:
Install 2 plies of 30 lb. felts which will be mechanically fastened in accordance with local building codes. According to the manufacturer's specifications, two plies of 30 lb. felts are to be installed for any slope or roof pitch under 4”/12”. When comparing prices, if your slope or roof pitch is less than 4”/12”, please be sure that all contractors are using two plies of 30 lb. felts on your roof.
SHINGLES:
Install GAF 25 year 3 Tab fiberglass fungus resistant asphalt shingles. Shingles are to be mechanically fastened with Metro Dade approval Ring Shank roofing nails in strict accordance with the manufacturer and local building department specifications. The available color is to be determined by the owner.
BASE SHEET: ON FLAT DECK:
Install 1 ply of 28 lb. fiberglass base sheet to the entire surface of the roof, lapping each sheet four inches over the underlying sheet and six inches over the end laps. Each sheet is to be installed without voids and 100% mechanically fastened to the deck.
INTERPLY:
Install 1 ply of fiberglass felt embedded in a minimum uniform layer of 28lbs of Domestic Type IV hot asphalt per 100 square feet as per code.
MODIFIED BITUMEN ROOFING SYSTEM: FOR FLAT DECK:
Install granular surface modified bitumen roofing with plasticized bituminous and modified with elastomers. Material is to be reinforced with a high strength polyester.

This one is very confusing to me because they did not list out what they would do for the slope and flat roofs, but listed out some common items with conditions.

For example, they say they are doing 2 plys of #30 on everything less than 4" per foot slope. I am quite sure my slope roof is steeper than that, so it will not have two layers. Does it mean it will be on the flat roof since it is less than 4"/foot? I don't think so because it said specifically "install 1 ply of 28 lb. fiberglass base sheet". So basically the 2 ply of #30 that they say they do that no one else do as a standard does not apply, correct? So the way I read it for the sloped roof, is they will have some sort of unspecified base sheet (because they never specified what they would do if slope is > 4" per foot), then 3 tab shingles. This is essentially the same as proposal #1, correct?

Then on the flat roof, first 1 ply of 28 lb. fiberglass base sheet, then 1 ply of fiberglass felt, and finally a granular surface modified bitumen roofing with plasticized bituminous and modified with elastomers. So basically three layers. Proposal #1 has 4 layers. Is that better?

Also proposal #2 seems a bit deceptive to throw out the double #30 which is what they told me also on the phone "we put #30 on the roof and everyone else charges you extra for that..." but it's subjective to the slope, and they never say what the alternative is if the slope exceeds 4" per foot.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:44 AM   #7
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


Quote:
Another is to have a #30 & SA-SWB for an added $1680, and I am not sure what the second one even means.
I'm fairly sure that's a self-adhered, storm(?) water barrier. Examples would be Grace Ice & Water Shield or Tarco MS300 Leak Barrier. You should verify with with them where it would be used. It's usually not a good idea to use it over the entire roof, since it's not breathable, and in Florida, I can't see any advantage to having it on an A-frame roof, since the pitch is no where near flat enough to need it. It's normally added to prevent leaks from ice dams.

Last edited by HotRodx10; 05-15-2020 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:58 PM   #8
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


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Originally Posted by HotRodx10 View Post
I'm fairly sure that's a self-adhered, storm(?) water barrier. Examples would be Grace Ice & Water Shield or Tarco MS300 Leak Barrier. You should verify with with them where it would be used. It's usually not a good idea to use it over the entire roof, since it's not breathable, and in Florida, I can't see any advantage to having it on an A-frame roof, since the pitch is no where near flat enough to need it. It's normally added to prevent leaks from ice dams.

Yes that's some sort of self adhesive layer. Is having more layers better?


For example, is having two #30 felt better than one #30? I am not a roofer, so I think the base sheet of #30 is attached to the roof deck with those nails with a washer on the underside of the nail head.


So a thousand nails are driven into the deck to attach the base sheet. When they use 2 plies of #30, how is that done? Do they just lay two sheets down then drive the thousand nails in? Or do they nail down one sheet with a thousand nails, then lay down a second sheet, with another thousand nails? That would make two thousand holes and if there is a leak or a movement of the deck, the nail pops a little and it's still going to leak when the nail rusts a little right?



Is 2 layers of #30 better than 1 layer?


Then when you attach the shingles that another thousand of nails driven into the deck.
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:05 PM   #9
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


Quote:
Yes that's some sort of self adhesive layer. Is having more layers better?

The self-adhesive leak barrier is an asphalt/rubberized sort of material, so it self-seals around nails and such that goes through it. Usually, felt paper, shingles, etc. have to be layered so that where the nail holes are is 'uphill' from where water runs off. Using the leak barrier may allow them the nail down the bottom edge of the shingles, which they wouldn't otherwise be able to do, which would help the shingles stay on better in high winds.


Quote:
Is 2 layers of #30 better than 1 layer?

Probably, although my guess is that their intention is to increase the overlap; instead of lapping the next row of felt, say 6" over the one below it, they would lap it half the width of the lower row, which makes it less likely for water to get pushed up under one layer and get through around the nails.
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Old 05-16-2020, 08:53 AM   #10
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals




Searched for "shingle roofing in florida". Kind of impressed with this, although valleys and vents are made almost water proof without the means for drainage in future. The installers (or maybe the state) demand this kind of layering. Im in nj and not a roofer. Also I would not use the ridge/soffit vent if wind driven rain is a problem. Don't really know what weather is like there.
The videos shows low slope roof connecting to 3:12 roof. You can see how far roll roofing goes under the shingles.


Flat roof. If budget allows, I'd try to put some slope there, if what you have is FLAT roof. I think i'm reading hot tar mop roof, but 1 layer between 2 coats doesn't sound right. In nj and I read that they have at least 3 layers of tarpaper between coats of hot tar and get a gravel top. Granules on overlap joints will not help with anything since granules will wash away soon. I probably am not understanding what's done in florida. Maybe it's the basesheet between coats and get a modified roll roofing on top. That would make more sense based on the video above, how layers are used.


If your roof is not leaking now, should take more time about this and maybe post some photos. If you can, learn about flat roofing options. Even if leaking, use roofing cement to fix for short term.


Layering is fine, or even something like ice shield (adhesive sheet) on top. Moisture will dry to inside. Problem is when moisture has no place to go when vapor barrier surrounds the moisture from both sides. Above video, I don't know if the gray sheet is adhesive, vapor permeable, etc.


"Lead" vent caps probably does not mean real lead. Pros usually use good enough caps/flashing but aluminum or zinc plated sheets.

Last edited by carpdad; 05-16-2020 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 05-16-2020, 01:01 PM   #11
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


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Originally Posted by carpdad View Post




"Lead" vent caps probably does not mean real lead. Pros usually use good enough caps/flashing but aluminum or zinc plated sheets.
Lead pipe collars are still very common, I wish we could get them where I live. I imagine they still use them in Fl
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Old 05-16-2020, 10:38 PM   #12
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Re: Need advice on re-roof proposals


I like lead as well. They live long, reuseable after a demo and very shape shifting. Sorry, star trek just materialized into head. Haven't used much but feels most organic. It's a shame that any practical size is very expensive.
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