What Thinset To Use For Large 12"x24" Tiles On Slab? - Tiling, ceramics, marble - Page 3 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:13 PM   #31
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Sorry, I Didn't Fully Answer Your Question


There are no cracks or control joints in the floor, but there is one irregular cold seam where I had to do some tear out and repair of improperly installed plumbing -- such is my world down there http://www.diychatroom.com/images/smilies/sad.gif. Thanks.

Alan
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:50 AM   #32
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Where To Start Tiling


One last question (I hope). Where in the space should I start tiling? The room is basically square in shape (about 21 x 20) and pretty geometrically square overall, but I can't say exactly how much it's out of being perfectly square. My choices would seem to be the front near the garage door, the rear wall or somewhere in the center. My plan is that the 2' x 2' tiles will be laid in a square grid pattern, so that all 4 corners will join together in one spot (i.e. no staggered overlap, diamond pattern or anything of that sort). I'm open to changing that to a square overlap pattern if you advise that it would be better/easier for some reason. I would like to minimize my cuts but obviously not wind up with a thin strip somewhere where any lack of true squareness will be obvious. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Alan
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:06 AM   #33
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Alan,

Best way is to do a quick dry layout. It may not be best starting with one full tile off of a wall, but it might just be fine as well, it really depends. If there's a door in the garage, you might want a centered full tile in front of the door (say if the door is space off one of the corners enough for a full tile). You could end up w/ a layout where you only use a half or less tile on each opposite side, etc. My first thought would be that you would want to start with full tiles on the open side of the garage by the garage door (so you see a nice full tile since that would be the most visible side).
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #34
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Thanks


Thanks again Mike and Jaz for all of your help.

Alan
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:11 AM   #35
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Leveling Systems


Gentleman, on your advice, I've done a little reading on both the Lash and Tuscan leveling systems. I'm planning to use one of them -- just not sure which yet. The tiles are about 1/2" thick and are rectified, and I plan to use a 1/2" notched trowel to apply the thin set as you recommend. Would either leveling system work in my application? Do you prefer one over the other and why? How do you make sure you get 100% thin set coverage on the tile when using these systems? It seems to me they might have the effect of "lifting" one tile or the other to bring it up flush w/ the neighboring tile. When "back buttering" the tiles, do you use the notched or smooth side of the trowel? Is there some other method you recommend to make sure the tiles are fully imbedded in the thin set, such as a block and mallet? I am assuming that the correct installation method is to "smush" the thin set ridges down so you don't have any voids under the tile where you could get cracking under a point load. Am I correct? Thanks again.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:24 AM   #36
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Alan,

First off you're welcome for the help. I've learned quite a bit from this place.

I'm not familiar w/ the tuscan system, but I used the lash system in my basement w/ 12x24" tiles, and it worked very well. In terms of 100% coverage, yes the system might lift slightly on one tile, but it also pushes down on the other. If they're reasonably level, you're talking about moving it about 1/16" or so at most, so the tile should still have enough coverage (I think they say 80% is good?), especially if you apply plenty of thinset. If they're off by more than that to begin with, you might just need to pull up the tile, apply more thinset, and then lay the tile again. To verify you're getting good coverage, it's recommended on your first tile to set it like you would the rest, then pull it up and look at the back of it to verify you got good coverage. If it looks good, you're fine, if not, you might need to use a little more thinset going forward (or "smush" it more).

When back buttering, you use the flat side of the trowel. It's just to fill in the voids in the tile (many tiles have ridges/grooves in them), so when you lay the tile in the troweled bed of thinset, it has 100% contact. The correct installation as you said is then to "smush" the tile down via pushing down and twisting a little.

Sounds like you got it. Good luck!
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #37
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Alan,

Both leveling systems work, Tuscan works better and of course costs more. Whether you need to use one of these methods depends on the tile and the condition of the slab.

Here is an alternative method that is a more professional and more difficult way to do it. It shows the installation of 24x24 travertine into a mud base to make it all flat. The video is 5 1/2 minutes, but forgive the nonsense in the beginning. Questions? Get back here.

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Old 06-29-2012, 01:42 PM   #38
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Thin set and Mortar?


Thanks for the link to the video, Jaz. Very informative, but now it has me wondering why he first applied thin set (white) to the floor, then mortar (grey) to the floor, set the tile and then lifted it and applied more thin set to the back of the tile? i was under the impression that thin set and "mortar" were in effect the same thing and that I only needed to apply 1 type of setting material. Are those mallet they're using wood or rubber? Is it also acceptable to lay a block of wood across two or more tiles and then hit that w/ a mallet?
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanalford View Post
Thanks for the link to the video, Jaz. Very informative, but now it has me wondering why he first applied thin set (white) to the floor, then mortar (grey) to the floor, set the tile and then lifted it and applied more thin set to the back of the tile? i was under the impression that thin set and "mortar" were in effect the same thing and that I only needed to apply 1 type of setting material. Are those mallet they're using wood or rubber? Is it also acceptable to lay a block of wood across two or more tiles and then hit that w/ a mallet?
The thin set mortar applied to the concrete slab is to bond the "deck mud". The gray mortar is just sand and Portland cement and is the leveling base, it has no adhesion properties. We apply the mud leaving some space in it so it can compress when you set a tile and beat it in. Once you are satisfied that you have the right amount of mud you lift the tile and apply thin set so it'll bond to the mud. Then beat it with a rubber mallet to further compress and set it flat. You can also use a maple beating block to further aid to get it all flat with little or no lippage. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=tile+...9,r:0,s:0,i:75
Thin set mortar is an adhesive. Mortar or mud is just the base. Think of it as a slab of concrete anywhere from 3/4" - 2" thick that creates a solid flat base for tiles.

Jaz
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:42 PM   #40
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For info on uncoupling membranes check out schluter.com and look for Ditra (their uncoupling membrane). I could tell you the price here in BC but meaningless to you I would imagine. You buy it by the roll or by the linear foot in some places. They all have loads of info on installations for various substrates/purposes. With the vehicle weight you'll need to be super careful to avoid air pockets anywhere. An epoxy grout will stand up best to possible oil stains, etc ... Used for commercial installations. It's a messy install though.
Always back butter porcelain tile as this means you are bonding thinset to thinset rather than to the powder film left on the back of porcelain tile from the factory.
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