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Old 03-10-2018, 11:27 PM   #1
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Talk "shower valve" to me...


In the process of putting together a shopping list for 2 bathroom remodels. One is a standard tub with a shower head.. These I would need a 2 function?

The other is just a stand up shower but I'd like to have a hand unit, a shower head and maybe a couple body jets... for these, I guess what I would need is a 3 function?

When looking at valves, (the item below for instance) rough in... These don't come with the cartridge?

What is a good preference brand? Whatever I choose, I assume thermostatic is the way to go?
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Old 03-11-2018, 05:09 AM   #2
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


U_by_Moen_Shower

Moen Thermostatic Mixing Valves

Moen Posi-Temp

Is that what ya lookin' for?
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:42 PM   #3
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CNT View Post
U_by_Moen_Shower

Moen Thermostatic Mixing Valves

Moen Posi-Temp

Is that what ya lookin' for?
Did some research and think I understand a these vavle a lil more. What I have now is something like the one below.

Correct me if I'm wrong her but the Thermostatic mixing valves gets installed at the water tank? This would control the whole house?

If I don't do that for the whole house, then I use something like the one below to control at the shower only?

https://www.efaucets.com/detail.asp?...d=k-2976-ks-na

btw: If I did a thermostatic valve like the one below
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Danze-Si...00BT/202387240

then I have to install a separate volume control per outlet? So I'll end up with 3 handles in the shower? One for temp, one each for the shower and tub spout?

My current setup has on outlet only with a little pull handle on the spout that divert water to the top. That's old school now?

Last edited by dannieboiz; 03-11-2018 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:17 PM   #4
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


For me, I don't bother with it. If water get colder, simply turn the hot water more, and vice versa. $300 for something like that!? But, I still respect to those that have different lifestyles.

Since I didn't care what it is, I just buy Moen faucet (I just trust those, they have replacement parts that are years apart and still change without taking out the whole "behind-the-wall" plumbing) and new ones have those included (for new work).

That Home Depot part is for one handle operation (one hole in wall), and behind it has four pipe connections (hot, cold, shower, tub). I am not sure about the Kohler one (looks complexed).

Was that the question/prompter response?

Last edited by CNT; 03-11-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:18 PM   #5
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


For the standard bathroom with just a shower and tub, any brand valve will work. The function from tub to shower is controlled by the tub spout. Usually a knob you pull up or down to control where the water flows. For the other one, you will add a separate diverter valve with as many functions as you want. I think what you are doing you will use a 6-way valve.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:22 PM   #6
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Thanks guys, I think I'm understanding it more now. I have a plumber coming to give me a quote for a whole house repipe. Just gotta make sure I ask the right question. Going to get the house repipe before I gut the bathrooms and remodel.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:55 PM   #7
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


I used Delta rough in valves. It's my understanding...I'm pretty much assured of being able to get replacement parts for a LONG time......

The valve inside is standard.....trim outside can be any style you want.

Mine have both on/off and water temp control. I had to replace one recently...it was like $40 for a new valve. Took all of 5 min to replace.

Oh....and, the rough in valve works for just about any configuration. Hot and cold in...one pipe up for a shower....one down for a tub. Not using a tub? You just block it off.

One one of our showers, I also have a diverter for a hand wand. It has 3 positions.....I'm only using 2.
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Last edited by ddawg16; 03-11-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:16 PM   #8
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Repipe scheduled for next weekend, so I'm reving up high gear in selecting these items...

Plumber also recommends the delta valves. Then I'm stuck with another delima, the cartridge.

Since this is all going to be part of 2 major bathroom renovation, I want to make sure I don't look back and wish I did things otherwise.

I have a single vs a dual function cartridge. It doesn't matter to me how the temp is control but since the dual function cartridge allows a separate volume control, does it provide more volume or is it the same? We have a single function now and never really find myself needing to lower the volume, I always wish there were more volume.

According to the specs here I have a couple choices... which one do I want? the dual function is more than triple the price, is it worth it? Would need the below selected before I can select the trim kit.

Quoted from online site.

Single-Function Cartridge
The single-function, pressure-balanced valve works for all 13 and 14 series shower assemblies. The cartridge regulates water temperatures from the water supply lines. The temperature will not increase more than 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit due to increases in water pressure or temperature changes in the water supply. The 13 and 14 series shower assemblies have one handle that turns to increase or decrease the water temperature.

Dual-Function Cartridge
The dual-function cartridge allows the user to control the water volume and temperature. As with the single-function valve, the temperature will not increase more than 3.6 degrees. The 17 series shower assemblies have two handles to control pressure and water temperature.

Thermostatic Cartridge
The thermostatic cartridge also has dual functions. It monitors the water temperature and automatically adjusts the water supply mixture to maintain the water temperature. The thermostatic cartridge fits all 17T series shower assemblies.

Last edited by dannieboiz; 03-11-2018 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:36 PM   #9
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dannieboiz View Post
Repipe scheduled for next weekend, so I'm reving up high gear in selecting these items...

Plumber also recommends the delta valves. Then I'm stuck with another delima, the cartridge.

Since this is all going to be part of 2 major bathroom renovation, I want to make sure I don't look back and wish I did things otherwise.

I have a single vs a dual function cartridge. It doesn't matter to me how the temp is control but since the dual function cartridge allows a separate volume control, does it provide more volume or is it the same? We have a single function now and never really find myself needing to lower the volume, I always wish there were more volume.

According to the specs here I have a couple choices... which one do I want? the dual function is more than triple the price, is it worth it? Would need the below selected before I can select the trim kit.

Quoted from online site.

Single-Function Cartridge
The single-function, pressure-balanced valve works for all 13 and 14 series shower assemblies. The cartridge regulates water temperatures from the water supply lines. The temperature will not increase more than 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit due to increases in water pressure or temperature changes in the water supply. The 13 and 14 series shower assemblies have one handle that turns to increase or decrease the water temperature.

Dual-Function Cartridge
The dual-function cartridge allows the user to control the water volume and temperature. As with the single-function valve, the temperature will not increase more than 3.6 degrees. The 17 series shower assemblies have two handles to control pressure and water temperature.

Thermostatic Cartridge
The thermostatic cartridge also has dual functions. It monitors the water temperature and automatically adjusts the water supply mixture to maintain the water temperature. The thermostatic cartridge fits all 17T series shower assemblies.
the delta multi choice rough in valve will allow you to not have to choose/decide until trim stage...
think of the choices as good, better, best...
also goes in same direction with pricing...

I'd recommend the dual function for tub shower faucet as sometimes people like to trickle hot water into a soaker tub to keep heat/temps up...

you will get more flow through the thermostatic than the standard 17 dual function... either will work well but if you want more flow capability, the 17T
is the best choice and uses high end Rohl thermostatic technology...

Peace
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:50 PM   #10
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DR P View Post
the delta multi choice rough in valve will allow you to not have to choose/decide until trim stage...
think of the choices as good, better, best...
also goes in same direction with pricing...

I'd recommend the dual function for tub shower faucet as sometimes people like to trickle hot water into a soaker tub to keep heat/temps up...

you will get more flow through the thermostatic than the standard 17 dual function... either will work well but if you want more flow capability, the 17T
is the best choice and uses high end Rohl thermostatic technology...

Peace
So far a starter on the standard shower tub and shower I'll order the following...

Multichoice high flow model
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040YQ218...a-328038407927

and a RP47201 MultiChoice 17T

https://www.amazon.com/Faucet-RP4720...ultiChoice+17T

Would I want the same in the master bathroom where I'll be having a separate handheld and body jets? then add some volume controls? Is that the idea?

One more thing.... when you order the trim kit does the cartridge comes with? I'm looking at online photos and some of them shows a photo of the cartridge as part of the package.

Last edited by dannieboiz; 03-12-2018 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:47 AM   #11
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Can someone explain in layman terms?
Is this regard preventing the hot water from becoming too hot?
Water pressure? Wouldn't that be base on 3/4" pipe (instead of 1/2" bottleneck)?

I just installed a Delta for a friend (it was little more complex than Moen, but this thread isn't about brand names). At first, the Delta had a setting default of warm water as hottest, I had to tune something now it's full hot water opening. Is that what this is about?

What is "Posi-Temp" (as Moen own this market name)? Is that has to do with the fixture not freeze?

All I know about today's trends with "body shower" (is that what it's called?) is that requires 3/4" pipes. I haven't experienced installing one nor showered within.

Do "sonic shower" exist?

Sorry if this is way off topic.

http://www.lushome.com/30-luxury-sho...throoms/147025
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:52 AM   #12
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CNT View Post
Can someone explain in layman terms?
Is this regard preventing the hot water from becoming too hot?
Water pressure? Wouldn't that be base on 3/4" pipe (instead of 1/2" bottleneck)?

I just installed a Delta for a friend (it was little more complex than Moen, but this thread isn't about brand names). At first, the Delta had a setting default of warm water as hottest, I had to tune something now it's full hot water opening. Is that what this is about?

What is "Posi-Temp" (as Moen own this market name)? Is that has to do with the fixture not freeze?

All I know about today's trends with "body shower" (is that what it's called?) is that requires 3/4" pipes. I haven't experienced installing one nor showered within.

Do "sonic shower" exist?

Sorry if this is way off topic.

http://www.lushome.com/30-luxury-sho...throoms/147025
You brought up a good point, my plumber is going to use 1" pipe in from the mains all the way to the heater where he's forced to reduce it to 3/4 but said he'll be using 1" cold then again bringing the 3/4 from the water heater to 1" to feed into the crawlspace, he will then split 1" to 3/4 when he does the split to various places.

There are 3/4 rough in as well from Kohler but that thing is like $275
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:31 AM   #13
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dannieboiz View Post
So far a starter on the standard shower tub and shower I'll order the following...

Multichoice high flow model and a RP47201 MultiChoice 17T

no need to order the 17T, a cartridge comes with all trim assembly

Would I want the same in the master bathroom where I'le having a separate handheld and body jets? then add some volume controls? Is that the idea?
order a R11000 delta diverter
https://www.deltafaucet.com/bathroom/product/r11000
controls up to 3 separate ports (up to any 2 at once)

I'd recommend you install multichoice rough-in with stops (WS)
https://www.amazon.com/Faucet-R10000.../dp/B001AHZRD2
built in service stop valves

Peace
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:56 AM   #14
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


most all showering outlets are rated & have controlled flow rates to better ensure your showering experience is:
not water wasteful & that you do not prematurely run out of hot water as well as over whelm the drain...
a HF multichoice valve with a 17T can produce more than enough flow for 3 body sprays
operated in parallel at once... after that you are going to run out of hot water in minutes unless you have massive hot water capacity...

BTW the (HF) high flow rough in is not for use with tubs
found in specs:
Note: No tub outlet in HF model
https://media.deltafaucet.com/SpecSh...%20Rev%20J.pdf

do use it for your HF shower needs

but for your tub/shower do not order the HF rough-in
a standard R10000 WS valve will work fine with
either the 17 or 17T trim

Peace
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Last edited by DR P; 03-12-2018 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:12 AM   #15
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Re: Talk "shower valve" to me...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dannieboiz View Post
You brought up a good point, my plumber is going to use 1" pipe in from the mains all the way to the heater where he's forced to reduce it to 3/4 but said he'll be using 1" cold then again bringing the 3/4 from the water heater to 1" to feed into the crawlspace, he will then split 1" to 3/4 when he does the split to various places.

There are 3/4 rough in as well from Kohler but that thing is like $275
then you should compare price of 17 trim vs 17T before you order

3/4" thermostatic is overkill unless you have a party shower set up
with oversized drain, separate volume controls & the hot water capacity

plumbed a shower once that had his & hers stations
capable of over 24 gpm but only 21 gpm available
from tankless manifolds in winter... oh darn

Peace
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