Shower Walls With No Red Guard - Kitchen & Bath Remodeling - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling > Kitchen & Bath Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 01-18-2018, 09:56 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 24
Default

Shower Walls With No Red Guard


I just found out my previous tile guy did not properly waterproof the walls in my shower. Cement backer board was used but there is no red guard. Most of the seams were fiberglass taped and mudded, but the corners were simply butted with no water barrier.

He was fired and a new company hired. They want to pull the subway tiles from the corners, red guard and reset tiles. I understand this is the best option other than starting over, but can I get away with not pulling the tiles and red guarding? Am I setting myself up for disaster if we donít address the issue? Or, will I most likely be alright?

Will just red guarding the corners make a difference if the whole wall is not done?

I was thinking that a waterproof sealer over the tiles and grout might be a good substitute. Thoughts?

I know this is a mess and it should be ripped out and start over. We donít have the money for that and Iím just trying to find a proper compromise. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Shower Walls With No Red Guard-wall-tile.jpg  
fixit26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-18-2018, 10:27 AM   #2
Peace be with you
 
DR P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: in hills of Caroline USA
Posts: 933
Rewards Points: 1,860
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Are you talking about only the seams around the base inside the shower aren't sealed?
Is there a pre-sloped pan under the CBB/tile & was it tested for 24hrs?
IMO, If you do not have a properly tested & sloped pan installed then you should start over...
DR P is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-18-2018, 10:32 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 24
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Quote:
Originally Posted by DR P View Post
Are you talking about only the seams around the base inside the shower aren't sealed?
Is there a pre-sloped pan under the CBB/tile & was it tested for 24hrs?
IMO, If you do not have a properly tested & sloped pan installed then you should start over...
Hey there, Thanks for the response. I'm talking about the walls only. The floor will be done by the new company with proper waterproofing. The previous tile guy started the subway tile about foot up form the floor. Once the floor is done we will run the wall down to it.

The seams in question are those connecting the back wall to the two side walls.
fixit26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-18-2018, 11:15 AM   #4
retired painter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: east tenn
Posts: 6,683
Rewards Points: 1,370
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


If plastic or roofing felt was stapled up behind the cement board redgard isn't needed.
paul100 likes this.
mark sr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 09:03 PM   #5
Peace be with you
 
DR P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: in hills of Caroline USA
Posts: 933
Rewards Points: 1,860
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


I get that the tile now stops 1' off floor now but
Does your CBB on walls run down to subfloor now?
& or do you see studs for at least 6" off subfloor
because the pre-sloped pan for the tile base
has to be installed behind the CBB & any felt/plastic.

As for vertical CBB corners not sealed... the
corner tiles overlap, then are grouted & or siliconed.
if you are truly concerned that a significant
amount of moisture does get past/behind tiles
on a vertical surface, you have no choice but
to remove/seal/replace tiles now... its 2 corners.
waterproofing won't hold up due to cleaners involved

Peace
DR P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 12:53 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 36,375
Rewards Points: 17,890
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


RedGard and tape over the joints should have been used over the whole thing.
Tar paper or any vapor barrier behind the tile board is useless, it was how it was done 20 years ago.
I see he also had small end cuts close to the outside, really bad idea, first place there's going to be leak.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 01:47 AM   #7
Member
 
Glassit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northeast
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 116
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Tiles in my house were glued to sheetrock with construction adhesive, no Redguard, and lasted 50 years as best I can estimate. Sheetrock and the wood behind and below was in rough shape and there was some mold but better than I would've expected.

Really though, this is a pretty bad detail to ignore. Are you fixing to flip or to live there? If you're that strapped for cash the best way to save is do it yourself, it's not that hard.

The best option if you're going to leave that up would be to go with epoxy grout, worked deep into the joints, and a high quality industrial sealant at the corners like Dow Corning 795, also worked deep in. But I wouldn't recommend it.
Glassit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 03:47 AM   #8
Joseph Celements
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Jacksonville,FL
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 12
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


thanks!
CaseyClements is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 08:51 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 24
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glassit View Post
Tiles in my house were glued to sheetrock with construction adhesive, no Redguard, and lasted 50 years as best I can estimate. Sheetrock and the wood behind and below was in rough shape and there was some mold but better than I would've expected.

Really though, this is a pretty bad detail to ignore. Are you fixing to flip or to live there? If you're that strapped for cash the best way to save is do it yourself, it's not that hard.

The best option if you're going to leave that up would be to go with epoxy grout, worked deep into the joints, and a high quality industrial sealant at the corners like Dow Corning 795, also worked deep in. But I wouldn't recommend it.
Thanks for the info! We are remodeling to live here for another 5 years or so. 10 years max. Our next house will be our permanent home.

I got a couple bids that I may be able to swing if I pull from other budgets, but I am considering some DIY. Even with DIY, we have about $500 worth of tile on the walls already that will have to be replaced.

Not to mention the $250 in floor tile that the guy completely ruined. This project has been the biggest pain.
fixit26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 10:26 AM   #10
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 7,873
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glassit View Post
Tiles in my house were glued to sheetrock with construction adhesive, no Redguard, and lasted 50 years as best I can estimate. Sheetrock and the wood behind and below was in rough shape and there was some mold but better than I would've expected.

Really though, this is a pretty bad detail to ignore. Are you fixing to flip or to live there? If you're that strapped for cash the best way to save is do it yourself, it's not that hard.

The best option if you're going to leave that up would be to go with epoxy grout, worked deep into the joints, and a high quality industrial sealant at the corners like Dow Corning 795, also worked deep in. But I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, I agree with everyone (and you) that it should have been redguarded and done right with modern improved techniques....

But practically/cost speaking and in reference to your allready tiled wall, I've redone showers that were on CB with vapor barrier behind and they were perfectly fine..... even some on greenboard that somehow were fine after 20+ years......

On the verticals, I would not worry that much and either redguard or seal up the CB corners , tile... and use a good sealant silicon (not grout) down those corners.

I would worry more if your pan was presloped and done correctly. That's the horizontal where water actually collects and you can get a smelly moldy shower in a very short order.

Good luck
DR P likes this.
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)
MTN REMODEL LLC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 11:33 AM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 24
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Yes, I agree with everyone (and you) that it should have been redguarded and done right with modern improved techniques....

But practically/cost speaking and in reference to your allready tiled wall, I've redone showers that were on CB with vapor barrier behind and they were perfectly fine..... even some on greenboard that somehow were fine after 20+ years......

On the verticals, I would not worry that much and either redguard or seal up the CB corners , tile... and use a good sealant silicon (not grout) down those corners.

I would worry more if your pan was presloped and done correctly. That's the horizontal where water actually collects and you can get a smelly moldy shower in a very short order.

Good luck
Thanks! Just to clarify a couple things. I don't think any vapor barrier was put behind the CB. Also, the pan, preslope and curb was not done properly and is being redone by a new company. Here are some pictures to illustrate.

With the walls already partially done, can the floor be fixed? We're gonna chip it out and start over on the floor.
Attached Thumbnails
Shower Walls With No Red Guard-floor-01.jpg   Shower Walls With No Red Guard-floor-02.jpg  

Last edited by fixit26; 01-19-2018 at 11:35 AM.
fixit26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 11:57 AM   #12
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 7,873
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Gosh...... I hope someone has a better idea/solution for the pan

But a traditional mortor bed preslope and pan requires the preslope liner to run up the walls at least 6" underneath the cb.........

I'm not sure how the new company can do that practically..... what are they suggesting.......?????


EDIT (Wow.... it's a damn shame.... I really like your design/color.... I suppose there is no practical recourse from the original installer..???)
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)

Last edited by MTN REMODEL LLC; 01-19-2018 at 12:00 PM.
MTN REMODEL LLC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 12:09 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 24
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Gosh...... I hope someone has a better idea/solution for the pan

But a traditional mortor bed preslope and pan requires the preslope liner to run up the walls at least 6" underneath the cb.........

I'm not sure how the new company can do that practically..... what are they suggesting.......?????


EDIT (Wow.... it's a damn shame.... I really like your design/color.... I suppose there is no practical recourse from the original installer..???)
I'm meeting with the owner of the new company later today to go over the plan. We haven't discussed that part yet.

Yeah, it's painful to see this mess develop. I'm hoping that the new guys can button everything up and I can forget about the chaos and enjoy my new bathroom. It's been a VERY stressful couple of weeks. Thanks for the compliment on the design. I put it all together. Probably should have done the install myself too... I would have done a better job than this. Thought I was paying for a pro. aaaaaahhhh.
fixit26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 12:37 PM   #14
Member
 
Glassit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northeast
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 116
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Wonder if the guy knew what the "sheathing" on that Densglass means. Serious question, where did you find the previous installer? That's not something you find at Home Depot around here, was he a commercial construction worker from another trade doing some side work?

Don't supposed you know what the previous/existing pan detail actually is? It looks like there is old thinset/mastic combed there that he just went over, so if pan wasn't leaking before you might be OK. What does the new company see as the issue, besides that gap between Duroc and pan?

If that's the only issue you might be able to get away with spanning that gap with Kerdi band and unmodified thinset. 2" lap is supposedly all it needs to stay dry. Not ideal but maybe workable, and you wouldn't have to tear out that nice looking herringbone.
MTN REMODEL LLC likes this.
Glassit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2018, 12:52 PM   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 12
Rewards Points: 24
Default

Re: Shower Walls With No Red Guard


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glassit View Post
Wonder if the guy knew what the "sheathing" on that Densglass means. Serious question, where did you find the previous installer? That's not something you find at Home Depot around here, was he a commercial construction worker from another trade doing some side work?

Don't supposed you know what the previous/existing pan detail actually is? It looks like there is old thinset/mastic combed there that he just went over, so if pan wasn't leaking before you might be OK. What does the new company see as the issue, besides that gap between Duroc and pan?

If that's the only issue you might be able to get away with spanning that gap with Kerdi band and unmodified thinset. 2" lap is supposedly all it needs to stay dry. Not ideal but maybe workable, and you wouldn't have to tear out that nice looking herringbone.
The herringbone has to come out because the preslope wasn't done properly. There is a hump on left side of the drain. Water will pool at the left wall. Also, that's thinset between the tiles and the the drain sits higher than the tile on the right side. It's a disaster.

Previous installer works for a tile company and was doing it on the side. He was def in over his head. I'm assuming he's not a true installer and is just an assistant.

The yellow stuff that is combed was already there. The pan never had problems with leaking but the preslope was off a little in the corners. No water damage behind the walls though.

The first guy chipped up the tile, laid self leveler, put a vapor barrier on the floor only then laid tile on top.

I questioned him at this point about drainage and he said he could freehand it with thinset. (yeah, really...) I should have stopped him there, but I didn't know how bad it really was. After the disaster on the floor I had some real pros look at it and realized I was screwed.

Now here we are
fixit26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
shower walls porcelain tile over redguard gregw Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 5 07-31-2015 08:05 PM
gap patch between shower walls morequestion Tiling, ceramics, marble 4 02-06-2013 05:14 PM
Questions on waterproofing tile walls for shower with floor pan. HautingLu Tiling, ceramics, marble 11 09-18-2009 11:12 AM
Rotting shower walls PICTURE Sarah24 Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 6 05-10-2009 12:09 AM
Maxx Shower Walls Install on Metal Studs? atilla137 Plumbing 2 11-21-2006 06:17 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts