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Old 02-18-2016, 02:51 PM   #16
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Greg I'm not sure I follow you... I've already ripped out the old tile and not looking to find a match for that old tile anyways. I am wondering if my approach to the subfloor is sound, no questions regarding tile itself at this point.
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Old 02-20-2016, 12:32 PM   #17
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I tore up the mudbed on the floor and there's a few of the wood slats that look pretty rough. How exactly do you replace these? None of the edges can be seen from above in the bathroom, meaning the ends extend into other rooms alongside the bathroom. Only thing I can thing of is to cut at the edges of the bathroom from above and replace the parts of the slats within the bathroom. I would nail in some 2x4 supports along the edges of the bathroom from below in between the joists to support the edges of the flooring. I'd probably ahve to replace the whole subfloor with plywood, huh? Not sure if this is a good plan or up to code, wasn't planning on having to do all this. It's never easy!
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Old 02-20-2016, 08:44 PM   #18
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As long as that subfloor is not soft and rotted, you leave them. Otherwise cut them out with a shallow depth on a smaller sized Circular Saw. You can rent them from the local rental place or Home Depot. Then replace those sections with outdoor rated 3/4" Plywood. It would be hard to get Southern Pine or Salvaged pine to replace those areas.

Wood that gets that old, becomes like Iron. When I did my bath, I went through and used epoxied Deck screws to pull the boards against the joists. Then went down and taped all of the joints so that none of the mud fell on the Laundry area, which sits under mine. You can get by with using caulk between the joints to keep any mud from getting through, when you go to lay the Concrete Backer or other material if you are tiling.

My other post, I actually had just gotten up and was still half asleep when I posted that as an open thought, without catching all of the post.

I did the mud under the DenseShield, because I wanted it to be solid, even though it was getting screwed down. I had a couple of areas that were smaller then I expected, because of the floor area of my bath and close the closet drain is to the bath tub, which I had to cut one piece small for that area.

My floor will end up being one solid piece if this house ever comes down. I made sure that the floor was not going anywhere.

I did go around the perimeter of the floor and caulk between the tiles and the bottom plate, so if the tub did flood, I wold not end up with water getting between the tile and the sub-floor.






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Old 02-21-2016, 01:26 PM   #19
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Some are a bit warped. Some have some rot. Just wondering if I have to replace some or all of the subfloor.

How important is it that the wood slats (the bottom subfloor layer sitting on top of the joists) are completely flat and level? I'm thinking now that I should go with 3/4" ply over the subfloor with 1/4" cement board, that should equal my old floor height and meet the toilet flange flush. If the wood slats are a bit uneven though, can I get away with slapping the 3/4" ply over that to level it out?

And blocking is the term I was looking for... replacing the subfloor I'll need to add blocking around the edges of the new subfloor that I replaced in order to support the edges.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:49 PM   #20
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If you want to give yourself a good base, you can take them out and put in the Plywood.

Whoever replaced the wood where our toilet is, was smart in how they did it. They built a box frame for where they had to cut out a rotten joist.



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Old 02-21-2016, 05:06 PM   #21
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Replacing Shower Tile... Can I Reuse Cement Backing Over Wire Mesh Behind Tile?


Yes there is a lot going on there. Tempering valve for toilet, exhaust for the power vent on the water heater, vent stack for the main DWV, bath drain.

That water stain is old. Just never cleaned it up, which is on the list, when we get mold removal in our attic from the old bath exhaust that finally got replaced.






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Old 02-21-2016, 10:26 PM   #22
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MetalMan,

The subfloor looks a little rough but some of the discoloration may be from damp tarpaper. Any rotted or soft wood needs to be replaced of course. You can decide to remove all the planks if saving " in height helps, or install 2 layers of ply for more strength. If you replace a few planks be sure to find the same thickness. Those look like 1x6" which measure ⅞"x 5.5".

I agree with some of what Greg says, except him suggesting to use ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
replace those sections with outdoor rated 3/4" Plywood.
That implies and you may think to use pressure treated ply, which would be wrong. I'm sure he meant to say "subfloor grade" ply, which is t&g and the plies are bonded with waterproof glues. Might be called exposure 1 or similar. You could also use OSB subfloor. If the planks are removed, you need t&g, otherwise square edge if ok.

I also do not recommend that anyone try this;
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll
.....taped all of the joints so that none of the mud fell on the Laundry area, which sits under mine. You can get by with using caulk between the joints to keep any mud from getting through, when you go to lay the Concrete Backer or other material if you are tiling.
The above method is not Kosher. You always need to install min. " ply or OSB over planks. Planks are too unstable even if you can figure a way to keep the thinset from falling through.

All CBU's for floors MUST be set into thinset, fastened and taped ......no exceptions.

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Old 02-22-2016, 07:09 AM   #23
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Thanks for the reply Jaz. I'm glad you chimed in because I had already bought a sheet of 3/4" pressure treated ply to replace the planks. The signs at Lowe's describing the purpose for each board and differences between them were terrible, they provided zero help in choosing the right board for the job. So I'll take that back and exchange for OSB exposure 1. If I remember right, those OSB boards said something like "wall/roof" and not floor so I skipped over them. I looked at every sheet of plywood in Lowes for a good while and none of them mentioned anything about being subfloor rated from what I recall. I was looking for that.

I was going to replace a couple of the planks instead of the entire subfloor but I couldn't find the right size planks and unsure about the type of wood to use. The planks are 5.5" x 3/4" thick, eastern spruce. All I saw at Lowe's were 1x6s, which would be too high in order to match the exact same height of my planks. Although at this point I am prepared to replace the entire darn subfloor, I was going to replace only the sections of the planks that are damaged but I had a question about how flat the first subfloor layer (sitting directly on the joists) needs to be. My solid planks are still cupped and warped a little, and a bit squeaky. Even if the first subfloor layer is not completely flat, wouldn't a 3/4 layer of ply above that provide a pretty solid and flat surface to tile on? I know the right answer is probably no, just tear it all out and replace everything, but I am curious about how flat the first subfloor layer needs to be below my 3/4" ply and cement backer board.

The plan for now is to have either planks or(probably) 3/4" ply for the first subfloor layer, then 3/4" ply on top of that, then 1/4" cement backer board. This should get me to the same floor height I had before, to meet the toilet flange. Yes I would definitely plan on thinset, taping and fastening the cement board to the ply below. I'm assuming both the subfloor layer replacing the planks and the next layer of ply on top of that should be OSB exposure 1 then, right? And I bought deck screws to fasten the plywood to the joists where I'm replacing the slats, does that sound like the right fastener for the job?

Now to jump back to the shower. My old tile didn't go up to the ceiling, there was a 2 foot section of drywall between the ceiling and the top of the tile. I'm tiling all the way up to the ceiling now. I have a couple questions about the edges of the tile and whether or not the tile can overlap the backer board and sit on some drywall too. It appears my old tile was doing this at the edges of the shower tile. As you can see from the picture below, where the drywall ends and the mudbed for the shower tile begins (where it used to be anyways), the old tile was overlapping and was set on the drywall. I assume it's ok to do the same thing and tile all the way to the edge of that 2" strip of drywall. Would this be correct, or do I need to tear that strip of drywall out and replace with backer board as well? Same goes for the section of drywall running across the top of the shower, I will be tiling that too. Just curious if that needs to be cement board as well or if that can just be tiled over the drywall since it's a small area. I know I should probably just replace it with cement board but I am curious and just want to know what can and can't be done for the future.

Also, what are your recommendations for waterproofing the area below the shower pan and the shower walls? There will be no benches or horizontal areas in the shower other than maybe a soap holder somewhere on the wall.

Cement board - Let me know what you think about these choices. For the floor I was planning on using the 1/4" hardie baord. Looks easy to work with and light weight. For the shower walls, 1/2" durock.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:11 AM   #24
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Replacing Shower Tile... Can I Reuse Cement Backing Over Wire Mesh Behind Tile?


Correct Jaz on what I meant. I always forget that some consider Subfloor or outside rated ply as PT.

The tape was placed underneath on the Basement side, not on the Bath side. It was just to keep any mud that was applied for the DensSheield to be placed to help make the floor more solid. Proper taped joints before I tiled.

If I had laid 1/2" down instead of 1/4" DenseShield, It would have been too high, since our wood floors are the Veneer style that they started to use towards 1940.

All 1x6's were screwed down with epoxy deck screws, so that they would not move. All of the rooms in our house have floor bounch from the nails not holding after 80 years.




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Old 02-22-2016, 09:41 AM   #25
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If you're going over the planks you don't need t&g, but I didn't find any exposure 1 that isn't t&g. So, use this OSB; http://www.lowes.com/pd_12218-99899-...ductId=3602846 *or this ply; http://www.lowes.com/pd_12249-99899-...d=3602910&pl=1

On the planks, 1x6" is what yours are called. Today's 1x6 are 3/4x5.5", I would be shocked if their 1x's are actually 1". I thought your old planks may have been closer to ⅞", maybe not.

If the planks are cupped, you need to screw then down to remove the curve. It sometimes can be done. For ceramic under 15", the floor must be flat within " in 10' and 1/16" in 12". When measured from the two high spots. Adding plywood will not change the level plus that little hump will get larger. " ply will fix a slight dip though.

Ideally the toilet flange should sit at the level of the finished floor. It can be a bit lower and a thicker wax ring used, or other remedies. Therefore, you can use a thinner underlayment grade exp. 1 if it fits better. Deck screws are ok since they're rust resistant. Ring shank nails are good too. Be sure to fasten the underlayment to the subfloor and do not use xtra long fasteners to hit the joists. avoid the joists. Hit the joists with screws before the underlayment.

Remind me to answer the rest later cuz my typing finger is getting a cramp.

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Old 02-27-2016, 08:42 AM   #26
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Thanks Jaz. My planks are 3/4", just doubled checked. The 1x6 planks at Lowes were, I believe, 7/8". I have torn out the damaged planks only at this point. Just bought a toe kick saw and will cut to the edges and remove the rest today.

Do I need t&g? My space is so small that I won't be joining multiple sheets of plywood together, I can cover my entire area with one sheet. But I guess if the OSB all comes with t&g I have no choice. Since I will not be joining any t&g sections together, can I, or SHOULD I, cut off the tongue or groove edges? Or is it it fine to leave them as is when I lay the OSB down?

The toilet flange... do I reuse this I should I be replacing this? It would be a lot easier to work with the subfloor and laying it all down as one piece if the flange was removed. Then later I could just re-add a new flange to match the height of my new floor. If you think it's wise to go ahead and remove it now, how exactly do I do that?
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Old 02-27-2016, 09:57 AM   #27
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Be careful with that toe-kick saw, probably the most dangerous tool ever.

Although it's a small space, I'll bet you'll want to cut into two pieces to get it in.

If it's an old iron pipe, you'll need to get a plumber to remove the flange and re sweat it in. It's done with a torch and lead. Or, you can cut it from below, but that's even more work. You'd be using a Fernco coupler. Yes, it was invented by a guy down the road in Ferndale.

https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/hot-products

Jaz
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:28 PM   #28
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Re: Replacing Shower Tile... Can I Reuse Cement Backing Over Wire Mesh Behind Tile?


Moving right along with the bathroom now. I'm hoping to lay the tile in the shower this weekend, once I can decide on the tile that is. Will be applying redgard for the waterproofing membrane this week. My question is about the layout of the tiles. I've read that I should do the bottom row last, and use a piece of wood screwed into the backer board to support the first row of the tiles. But, if I'm doing that membrane then I'm putting screw holes through it to attach the piece of wood. What should I be doing here?
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:04 PM   #29
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Re: Replacing Shower Tile... Can I Reuse Cement Backing Over Wire Mesh Behind Tile?


Go with the QEP spacers, clips and wedges to make them even and flush all the way up. Just make sure that on the corners that you do not grout, but use colored Silicone that Mapi makes for allowing the walls to flex and the grout not to crack or fall out at the corners or where the pan tile meets the wall tile.



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Old 04-11-2016, 06:50 PM   #30
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Re: Replacing Shower Tile... Can I Reuse Cement Backing Over Wire Mesh Behind Tile?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Go with the QEP spacers, clips and wedges to make them even and flush all the way up. Just make sure that on the corners that you do not grout, but use colored Silicone that Mapi makes for allowing the walls to flex and the grout not to crack or fall out at the corners or where the pan tile meets the wall tile.
I've already ordered the Raimondi system for the leveling aspect of things. The articles I've read about tiling showers say to use a piece of wood, screwed into the backer board, to support the 2nd to the bottom row of tiles in the shower. Then tile up to the ceiling so that you have a full tile at the top, and tile the bottom row last. This is so that any partial tiles can be installed at the bottom, and so that if there are any tiles that aren't going to line up evenly with the bottom that this doesn't continue all the way to the top. My question is more about the holes that would go through the membrane by attaching the piece of wood below the bottom layer of tile to support it, allowing me to install the bottom tiles last. Kind of defeats the purpose of the membrane if you have to drill holes into it.

Also, I'm dealing with an uneven subfloor transition at my threshold. When I did my subfloor I realized the entire thing was sloping pretty badly in one direction of the room, so I had to make my blocking pieces under the subfloor a little higher on one end of the room to flatten and level out the floor. That's why I left the main part of the subfloor separate from the threshold area. A 1/4" piece of wood fills the gap between old wood slats and the first layer of the subfloor in the rest of the bathroom. Another 3/4" sheet of plywood brings me pretty much level with the rest of the bathroom subfloor but the two pieces of wood are slanting a little towards the laundry room on the other side of the bathroom. It's not that bad but I'm thinking it can be leveled out with some thinset when I apply that on the plywood when I'm laying my 1/4" hardie board on top of the entire bathroom floor. Your thoughts?
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