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Old 04-04-2018, 12:37 PM   #1
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Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


I am looking to remodel/update a broken time machine of a kitchen. I have been going back and forth with some ideas about how to open it up and efficiently use the limited space. Any input would be appreciated.

First up, the original layout and top view. It is a simple 9ft by 11ft kitchen, 9ft counter. Stand alone range next to a refrigerator. The top view measurements are horizontal x vertical in the top view sketch.

In the 3D model of the original layout, the red walls I highly suspect are load bearing. I suspect the orange walls are not. I would really like to at least open the kitchen up because 9x11ft feels really small. And the adjacent "dining area" is really small as well. The entrance/exit walkways are about 34" wide

Some considerations:
1) I dread the idea of a corner in the cabinets under a counter.
2) The window sills are 32" up from the floor, so they would have to be modified to accommodate an L-shape counter-top with a corner.
3) I'd like to keep the sink and plumbing as is since it will save a decent chunk of money, but have considered moving the sink to under the left window, after raising the bottom of the window.

I'll keep each new layout idea as a separate reply.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:57 PM   #2
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


The simplest/easiest design I can come up with knocks down the orange wall sections, and keeps a support beam with pillars where the Red wall was.

It adds space and cabinetry to the kitchen will only the fridge encroaches on the original dining area by about 14 inches. Yellow in this picture indicates wall sections that are kept (raised) and the yellow on the floor is the removed wall location.

Blue = sink
It is in the original location. Not much to say here. There will be cabinets similar to the original layout above the sink/counter.

Green = Dishwasher
DW is moved right 12" to be next to the wall. I don't think this causes problems except maybe hot steam messing up the wall. Access to the 12" section/cabinet I imagine might be more difficult if that 12" section seperated the DW from the wall.

Light blue = Fridge
I can't think of better place to put it. Will likely try to recess it a little into the wall, and box it in with cabinets above.

Red = range/stove
I am pretty sure I want to integrate a 36" induction cooktop, with a range integrated below. There would be 19" on each side of the cooktop. Haven't decided if centered is best, or move it to the side towards the sink.

The box below the window next to the fridge represents where a table would go. The window starts 32" off of the ground (trim is below 32") so making an L-shape counter would need two changes: 1) The dishwasher moved to the left of the sink (not too much of a problem besides a tripping hazard). And 2) the window would have to be resized smaller from the bottom.

The island could be extended 14" so that it matches the width of the fridge (which still looks awkward to me)

Overall this idea seams like a winner for relative simplicity, it keeps most of the electrical/plumbing in the original locations, and does not alter the size of the window(s)
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:05 PM   #3
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


A more radical "Single wall kitchen" would maximize dining room space, but kills the "triangle" workflow. Will need considerable plumbing/electrical moved, window openings altered, and every fridge location feels awkward. I don't think a stovetop can go near a window either and there is a lot of window. I would have to figure something out about compensating for the structural wall removal. The span from the fridge is 20ft. The span from the other wall/stairs is 15ft. Same color scheme as above. I could get creative with the blank wall area next to the fridge.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:08 PM   #4
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


The whole stick in the spokes here, revolves around the window between the ref and the DW. How much of a project would it be to replace it with a shorter unit to get the required 38" from the floor cabinet /backsplash heights ? If it is shortened, the design possibilities really open up.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:14 PM   #5
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


The single wall seems to get less and less functional the more I play around with it. Yellow box between windows is the microwave. Stove between windows might be too close to the sink, sink and DW are nowhere near storage cabinets. A thin "wine rack" will keep the fridge off of the wall a little.

The island could be removed, but then I will need some sort of support for the ceiling. Without a pillar would open the dining room a lot.

Deep down I kinda want a single wall kitchen, but I can't figure out a way to make it work.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:17 PM   #6
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


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Originally Posted by Gregsoldtruck79 View Post
The whole stick in the spokes here, revolves around the window between the ref and the DW. How much of a project would it be to replace it with a shorter unit to get the required 38" from the floor cabinet /backsplash heights ? If it is shortened, the design possibilities really open up.
I spent almost a full day researching this... I could pop out the old window, re frame it about 8 inches higher on the bottom (this does not require any structural considerations), keeping all other dimensions. Inside it would be easy, add drywall trim etc... Outside I would need to weatherproof the lower sill area, and add more wood paneling to match. It seems to be around $500 in materials as a DIY job with a bit of effort.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:28 PM   #7
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


Making an L-shape would give a lot more counter space. But that corner seems to make things difficult. I think a spinning/pullout trash/recycle thing might be the best use of that space.

Depending on the sink cabinet, there would be 10" coming out of the corner on each direction before hitting the adjacent cabinets. A smaller or offset sink/cabinet would increase that 10"
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:31 PM   #8
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


Where the wall is between your dining room and kitchen is - I would put base cabinets there with an overhang on the dining room side so you can make a bar seating area.

Also, on the dashed line between the dining and living rooms, is there a header there? That would be one indication if that whole span is load bearing.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:33 PM   #9
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


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Old 04-04-2018, 02:12 PM   #10
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


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Originally Posted by Bret86844 View Post
Where the wall is between your dining room and kitchen is - I would put base cabinets there with an overhang on the dining room side so you can make a bar seating area.

Also, on the dashed line between the dining and living rooms, is there a header there? That would be one indication if that whole span is load bearing.
Dashed line is just to separate the two rooms. The ceiling spans that entire section without support/header.

Last edited by gslenk; 04-04-2018 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:44 AM   #11
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Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


I am looking to do a remodel but don’t have a clue The cheapest way I can do this or even what kind d of cost would I be looking at. I am fine with salvaging cabinets if possible but I want to have a pantry and an open area with island. We are closing escrow next week, we will start with paint and floors throughout but I really want My kitchen to look more open as in the image attached. The main thing is the height of kitchen is much lower than dining area. I want to lift with recessed lighting, knock out that wall and move fridge flat against wall and extend the kitchen a bit longer.

Since we are on a budget I will really need a starting point and a workable kitchen during most of renovation if that’s even possible.






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Last edited by rjbaker; 04-05-2018 at 12:53 AM. Reason: wanting to remodel this kit
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:01 PM   #12
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


Quote:
This design seems to be OK, at least much better than what you have right now existing. Perhaps move the sink to the window wall and the stove to where previous sink area? Then previous stove area would be an island? Could put top-range on a island, but need to really look into the design flow. The refrigerator seems to be biggest barrier?

Won't hurt to talk to designers at box stores, just to get ideas. Even I mange to get most of my currently remodeling kitchen the way I intent to, my friend who works at Lowe's gave me some insights (like pullout drawers inside cabinets, pullout spice rack, lazy sue, etc).

If you're going to do new cabinets too, look for sales (lot of "20%" going on now).

(1st edit) Like other post, try to get continuous countertop space. As for me, I am keeping my "U" countertop design, even it's outdated (so much new trends going on now).

(2nd edit) Or with this design (in this post), cover the doorway and put the refrigerator in the doorway (or way around something like that with sacrifice the doorway), that should give you a better "L" continuous countertop, and the window wall, put a narrow base cabinet or a breakfast wall shelve with stools.

Last edited by CNT; 04-05-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:52 PM   #13
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


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Originally Posted by CNT View Post
This design seems to be OK, at least much better than what you have right now existing. Perhaps move the sink to the window wall and the stove to where previous sink area? Then previous stove area would be an island? Could put top-range on a island, but need to really look into the design flow. The refrigerator seems to be biggest barrier?

Won't hurt to talk to designers at box stores, just to get ideas. Even I mange to get most of my currently remodeling kitchen the way I intent to, my friend who works at Lowe's gave me some insights (like pullout drawers inside cabinets, pullout spice rack, lazy sue, etc).

If you're going to do new cabinets too, look for sales (lot of "20%" going on now).

(1st edit) Like other post, try to get continuous countertop space. As for me, I am keeping my "U" countertop design, even it's outdated (so much new trends going on now).

(2nd edit) Or with this design (in this post), cover the doorway and put the refrigerator in the doorway (or way around something like that with sacrifice the doorway), that should give you a better "L" continuous countertop, and the window wall, put a narrow base cabinet or a breakfast wall shelve with stools.


I really appreciate your input - I feel bad I should of added the picture from the other side so you could see current layout



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Old 04-05-2018, 11:53 PM   #14
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


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I really appreciate your input - I feel bad I should of added the picture from the other side so you could see current layout



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Old 04-06-2018, 12:29 AM   #15
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Re: Opening up a small kitchen remodel ideas/thoughts


I am sorry but I am now lost. I thought the very first drawing layout was the current layout (which shows the sink is NOT by the window), but now you just photo another one and the sink IS by the window? Also, the drawings/design isn't the same (no offend intended). I do NOT see any "stand alone range"?

Anyway, by looking at the updated photo (the one with tiles countertop)... looks like a demo job and new things (like you aren't going to keep the wall oven?)?

Is this your house? Did you (or someone) just bought it and haven't moved in yet? What's the budget? All that needs to be discussed and plan out. Are you going to have a microwave? I am not saying to get personal with this, but I am not following this with all these different drawings and other photos?

Maybe I am missing the question?
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