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Old 08-20-2015, 11:15 AM  
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Kitchen Sink "Too Big"


Hi, I just posted this on another forum and joined this one, so here it goes here as well:

OK, so here's the problem: my DH, the grand procrastinator of all time, has made me smile by getting the new, absolutely gorgeous hickory kitchen cabinets (that have been sitting around the house for a year) installed last month, and today the counters were measured for granite. We also bought a custom-ordered copper sink a year ago. But the guy doing the measuring today said it's too big and won't work! Of course, had we known that, we could have had the cabinets installed differently right there to adjust for the size of the sink, but it's too late now.

So, I get online to see what standard sizes are for kitchen sinks, and it appears to be 30" by 22". Our sink is 31" by 20". So I just don't get it. When I measured it, it's actually 20 1/4" by 31" from edge to edge because it has a 1" flat projection all the way around. (Don't know the "official" terms for things.) I think the 1" is where they screw it in?

DH is adamant that the granite guy knows what he's talking about that this sink will be too big, especially considering the faucet and all. With the 1" overhang, the counter tops will be 26" deep. I put the sink and the faucet on the plywood just now, and it looks to me like there's all the room in the world. DH insists that the granite guy said it's about the reinforcement underneath, so I look under it and I'm like, "So, since when have we been stymied by things like that? Common sense tells us that we can reinforce it as much as we want, right?"

We are folks who normally do everything ourselves, and it's a big deal that we're paying all this money for these counter tops. I normally don't even like granite all that much, beings as how it's busy and absurdly ubiquitous and all (we've got white appliances, too. I'm sick of seeing stainless everywhere you go.) But this is the most we've ever paid for a project in our 42-year marriage, and since we plan on selling in the next 5 years, it needs to be pleasing to others. (I almost had DH talked into trying DIY cement, but at age 64 he's not quite as adventurous as we were back in the 1970's )

So anyway, the question is: does anybody here have an idea of why our sink would be considered too big? Does granite require more room for sink installation than other counter top materials? Any other comments on this?

Thanks in advance so much!

Last edited by randnday; 08-20-2015 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:06 PM  
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Is the faucet integrated into the sink or mounted into the granite?
So the sink is actually 18 1/4 x 28. That's the part that is recessed into the granite.
You can have the sink installed in the granite if you pull out the sink base cabinet a few inches. This way the granite will be a little deeper at that point. If you look at some photos of kitchen cabinets, this is done pretty frequently. As a matter of fact, I did it myself. My granite is 28" deep at the sink.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:11 PM  
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Thanks, Ron


Problem being, the cabinets are already installed. But I'm thinking the granite guys can be a little bit creative with it anyway. No, the faucet is separate from the sink, so that's the problem I think. I didn't talk to the guy, only DH did. So I'm not entirely certain what the problem is, but I think it has to do with the integrity of the granite when making two separate cuts.

But... why can't they make just one cut? Cut the hole for the sink with just a little cut-out at the back for the faucet? That way there won't be a tiny piece of granite in between 2 holes for there to be a stress issue, right? I say we can shore it up underneath all we want, all by ourselves.

And... you installed your own granite?! Wow! Amazing. Are you a pro, or a really talented DIY'er? Either way, way to go!
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:17 PM  
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Ron, I tried to find a photo of your kitchen, but couldn't. Are they on this site? I'd like to see your handiwork.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:25 PM  
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The cabinet is installed with screws. Two in the back, two on each side in the frame. It can be moved out very easily if need be. Modifications might be needed with the water supply lines, but no big deal.
Granite guys are not going to leave a small sliver of stone in back of or in front of a sink or cooktop. A thin piece will snap with downward pressure. Especially if that piece of granite has faucet holes of 1 1/4".
How wide is the space from the inside of the sink cabinet to the wall? About 22 1/2-23"?
You need to decide how badly you want the sink and do what it takes to get the job done.
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Last edited by Ron6519; 08-20-2015 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:45 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randnday View Post
Ron, I tried to find a photo of your kitchen, but couldn't. Are they on this site? I'd like to see your handiwork.
I don't have any photos, but here is one I found on the internet.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:12 PM  
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Yeah, well now my DH is saying that the guy who "designed" the cabinets (WE designed them; he just drew up what we told him we wanted, although he often kept mentioning what a "grand job" he'd done) knew the sink we had ordered and had mentioned that the cabinets would need to be adjusted to fit. Since that happened over a year ago, it makes it difficult to hold him accountable now. It should have been on him to make certain the installers knew about the sink, in other words. (This guy messed things up in other ways that were almost catastrophic, so I'm not surprised to find this out now.)

I don't want them to leave a thin strip of granite that will break. I want them to just make one cut of the sink with a little dip-out for the faucet included, and make sure everything is well-shored-up underneath, even if that means that we personally get under there and do it. That's no problem. If they simply cannot do that then we must get a smaller sink. But I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do it the way I envision it. That way, the granite would cover the flange edges of the sink and the faucet would snug right up to the edge of it with the faucet flange actually sitting about 1/2" over the sink flange (on top of the granite, that is, with the sink flange under the granite), so it would have not only the granite for support, but also the metal of the sink flange edge. In addition, we would add support underneath in whatever way would work the best. That way there would be no thin strips of granite to break.

Does that make any sense to you, Ron? I might try drawing it up to show you what I mean.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:53 PM  
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Trying to put a picture here... (?)


Here's a scribble of what I meant, Ron. Just one hole with the faucet snugged right up to the sink. We could even snip a bit of the sink flange out, for that matter, so the faucet could fit in tighter. I don't see why not. The faucet outer (decorative) flange is separate and is made to sit on top of the granite. Why not have it sit just a half inch, or more, closer in? I mean, what difference would it make? This way there's no problem with tiny strips of granite breaking off because there's only one hole - no tiny strip. Also, the faucet flange would have the extra support underneath of the sink flange. Do you see anything wrong with this?

OK, now I've gotten this written but can't see how to upload my picture. Hmm. Well, I'll post this and see if I can figure it out. I think it worked, but won't know until I submit it.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:03 PM  
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Sinks that go on top of a counter have a thickness around the edge. You couldn't possible put the flange of a faucet escutcheon plate on top of a sink flange. If your sink has a flat edge all around, you have an under mount sink. It goes under the counter.
Posting a photo of the sink will help identify it. You can also look at the bill of sale. It should state it there as well
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:10 PM  
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Yes, Ron, it is an undermount.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:20 PM  
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OK, so I kinda propped the faucet flange up to show what I was thinking. It wouldn't be quite this far over, but you get the idea? The sink flange will be under the granite, of course, and the faucet flange will be over it, and not too close to the edge of the sink, but maybe a bit closer than if it had separate holes, naturally. And it could be even closer if we nicked a bit of the sink flange out to snug the faucet in closer. Any reason it wouldn't work? The sink flange would give even more support to the faucet, plus we would put reinforcement underneath as well.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:20 PM  
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Cutting out the sink flange and getting the faucet close to the sink might preclude installing the various connections under the sink. There are flanges that cover the hole drilled in the granite. That flange item might not fit in the truncated space. The supply connections might not allow getting a wrench in there to make the connections water tight.
The faucet manufacturers have parameters for their install space.
Just saw the sink photos. It looks really tight for the faucet in that space.
Bottom line, is that our opinion what can be done is over ridden by the granite guys willingness to do it.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:22 PM  
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Actually, now looking at the photos, the faucet flange would/could be this far over the sink after all. Maybe even a bit more.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:23 PM  
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OK. Very good points I hadn't even considered, Ron! I'll have to go check all of that out now. Thank you very much for thinking of the important details.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:57 PM  
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Hi again, Ron. Hope you're still around. I checked it out and did some measuring. It doesn't look like the things you mentioned will be a problem. Of course I don't know what kind of flange they will have for the granite, so that may change things. But there shouldn't be any trouble getting a wrench in there. There's plenty of room with the way the sink curves in the center, plus there's the extra space in the middle and just looks like it should be OK.

DH called the granite place. We're going over tomorrow for them to lay out the template for us to see & said to just bring the sink and faucet with to see how it will work. I think DH will go buy a smaller sink to take along just in case the other one won't work. So, I guess one way or the other it'll all be fine, huh?

Thanks again for your help and support, Ron. It is much appreciated. I don't get onto online forums much, and it's a pleasant surprise to have somebody "out there" show that they care enough to respond like you have. God bless.
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