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Old 01-22-2009, 11:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bathroom slave View Post
he suggested it might be necessary to use silicon between the mud base and the densguard. I'd appreciate it if he would confirm that this is the recommended meands of using densguard with a custom mud based shower.

Wouldn't the tape and thinset covered with redguard work around the bottom of the densguard also?
Yes, all changes of plane should be caulked. RedGard requires prefilling any large gaps before the final coat.
You do not use grout on plane changes as floors and walls will move independently of each other. Same with wall corners.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:29 AM   #17
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My original plan called for concrete board on the walls over a mud bed laid on a Dix Systems "Oneliner". Their video (http://www.dixsystems.com/) shows the concrete board installed before the mud bed was installed. I'm guessing the mud would have bonded with the concrete. They didn't mention using any kind of sealant. I'm assuming that's because both the wall and the floor are inside the Oneliner. By the way, they didn't mention how to seal the joints or the corners in the walls either!

I've just now learned about Densguard and it looks like it's easier to use than the concrete board. But in order to be able to apply a sealant as you suggest, I'd have to install the mud bed first, let it dry and then install the densguard.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:44 AM   #18
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I just watched that video. I can say, I think the Schluter shower system is better. It addresses the entire shower, not just the pan. BTW, that Dix pan looks harder to install than a Kerdi. Also, the Dix system doesn't address waterproofing the walls.
You may need to contact their technical support department to see how they say to address the wall/pan joint. I did see an instruction manual you could download. Maybe it will tell you in there.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:43 PM   #19
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Kerdi did look a bit easier, but didn't impress me as being water tight because of all the separate pieces. Too many places for something to go wrong.

I've already bought the Oneliner. They do recomend a vapor barier between the studs and the concrete wall boards. Now, having learned about densguard, I have a choice to make. Use the concrete boards or Densguard.

If I go with the concrete board, it will go in before the floor goes in, per the video. The mud will then go in and fill up to the bottom of the concrete board. There won't be any opportunity to caulk between the bottom of the board and the mud.

If I go with densguard, it seem that the mud has to go in first. Do you agree? Then once dry, I can install the Densguard and the caulk the bottom with silicon. What do you think of doing it in that order?

Finally, whether I use concrete board or Densguard, it seems that you recomment using silicon to seal the vertical corners. Is that right?
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:45 PM   #20
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You know that neither Densguard or CBU are waterproof, right?
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:43 AM   #21
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Yes. Neither is waterproof.

The wall-to-floor plane change in the Onliner is all contained within the Onliner. So, I'm questioning the need for use of a sealant between the densguard and the mud there. I'd probably have to install the densguard after the mud (not the order in the video) so that a decent gap could be created for acceptance of the silicon. Installing the mud after the concrete (as per the video) will make it nearly impossible to effectively apply any sealant that will get between the materials because the mud will partially bond to the concrete boards. I'd appreciate your thoughts either way.

Regardless of which backer I use, your recommended use of silicon in the vertical corner joints seem like an appropriate sollution to sealing those. So does the joint recommendation (mesh/thinset/redguard).

Thanks
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:15 PM   #22
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I poured the floor then put up densguard , siliconed corners and floor,mesh taped it, thinset and then put on 2 coats of redguard one up and down and one sideways. I also used sanded caulk for corners instead of grout.
This site is a wealth of knowledge. There is alot of good info.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:14 PM   #23
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I poured the floor then put up densguard , siliconed corners and floor,mesh taped it, thinset and then put on 2 coats of redguard one up and down and one sideways. I also used sanded caulk for corners instead of grout.
This site is a wealth of knowledge. There is alot of good info.
Nice job viper!

(caulk in tiled corners isn't an option, it's a must.)
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:25 PM   #24
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Just happened upon your thread and wondered if you were happy with the Densguard? We have a shower mold nightmare and are gutting the shower as the damage is into the studs. I can't decide between hardibacker and the densguard...Am I to understand either goes on right over the studs...no drywall involved? Currently the mold is in between the "fiberock" and drywall that was used. The house is 4 years old. Then I should tape the seams, seal it and caulk the joints at the plane changes?
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:20 PM   #25
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I contacted Dix Systems, the mfgr of the shower liner I plan to use. They did not recommend use of Densguard. So I'm not going to use it.

I plan to use the concrete board screwed to the studs, but before it goes on I'll be instaling a plastic vapor barrier between the concrete board and the studs. It sounds like who ever installed your shower didn't do that.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:36 PM   #26
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Thanks for the help. You are right, there was no vapor guard. It seems there is fiberock over drywall. They used nails and they are all rusty. The damage is to the studs so it seems the moisture has been getting through the grout or nail holes or both for a while. The fiberock is moldy and the drywall as well. I just can't believe how bad it is for a house that is only 4 yrs old so we are trying to do it as well as possible to prevent recurrence.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathroom slave View Post
I contacted Dix Systems, the mfgr of the shower liner I plan to use. They did not recommend use of Densguard. So I'm not going to use it.

I plan to use the concrete board screwed to the studs, but before it goes on I'll be instaling a plastic vapor barrier between the concrete board and the studs. It sounds like who ever installed your shower didn't do that.
I'm sure the reason they don't want you using Densguard is because the Dix system only addresses the pan area for waterproofing. Water can still wick up past the pan. If you use cement board, that will minimize the amount of moisture that's held there.

This is why waterproofing the entire shower is important.

I've been using Densguard recently and I like it a lot. If you use it and then waterproof (Kerdi or RedGard), there won't be any issues. Although, even if you use a cement board, you still need to waterproof.

jmurph, what kind of shower pan do you plan on using? Your situation is very typical when waterproofing is not used. I see it all the time, even on houses as old as yours. As long as you waterproof the area, you can use whatever backerboard you want. I like Densguard becuase it's light and easy to cut. When you cut typical cement board, it can be VERY dusty. The dust contains silica which is actually very harmful for you to breath. As long as you take the appropriate steps, you wouldn't have a problem. But that's just 1 more reason for me to use Densguard.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:11 PM   #28
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They used nails and they are all rusty. The damage is to the studs so it seems the moisture has been getting through the grout or nail holes or both for a while. The fiberock is moldy and the drywall as well.
Even if a vapor barrier was used, it wouldn't have completely stopped your issue. When the cement board is attached to the studs, you have to penetrate the vapor barrier. The only way to contain moisture (and inhibit mold growth) is to waterproof the outside of the backer board, keeping any moisture inside the shower. It's also very important to have and use a proper ventilation fan.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:56 AM   #29
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I want to use the same shower pan...the shower floor was not tile-its a pre-formed pan and seems to be fine. There were not any bull nose tiles used in the installation. So the tile was left with a raw edge along the corners and around the door. I think the waterproofing will solve many of the ways the water was getting in there as well as using the correct tiles etc. I was wanting to try the Densguard originally because its lighter but I think I better stick with something proven. Also, I heard there was some concern with an odor problem so...anyway I think I am getting a pretty good idea on the best way to do this.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:36 AM   #30
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I was wanting to try the Densguard originally because its lighter but I think I better stick with something proven. Also, I heard there was some concern with an odor problem
I can assure you there's absolutely nothing wrong with Densguard. I use it all the time and I've never had an "odor" problem.

I think maybe you don't fully understand what waterproofing is all about....at least it sounds that way. Maybe check out some of the videos at Schluter's site. I'm not saying they offer the only methods to waterproof but you can get a good idea of the concepts by watching how they use their products to achieve a fully waterproof shower enclosure.
Read some articles
http://www.schluter.com/5232.aspx
http://www.schluter.com/3783.aspx

http://www.schluter.com/8_4_kerdi_shower_kit.aspx
Click on the video link next to the picture of the shower pan.

You should realize that backer board or tile have nothing to do with if a shower is waterproofed or not.

Good luck.
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