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Old 09-10-2014, 12:41 PM   #16
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So I checked the Shluter website and according to them I want to use an unmodified thin-set mortar that meets ANSI A118.1 standards. In thins case I just want to use

- this Standard Thin-Set Mortar

but not these two:
- VersaBond White
- FlexBond

And I can use the standard thin-set for installing the membrane on the drywall AND the tiles to the membrane, correct?

Or are there any other suggested mortars that would be suited better?
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
You're right it doesn't matter, but it makes sense to use whatever you're already using for drywall. You can get faucet and shower head seals for Kerdi if you want. It's not necessary at the shower head because the shower head is so high (in most showers this just goes straight into drywall anyway.) It's most useful at the faucet. But even there you can just cut around the hole as you go, and finish the edge with a polyurethane caulk (supposed to be Kerdi Fix, but it's very expensive).

Or buy
http://www.lowes.com/pd_433965-36265...ductId=4190337

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1
Drywall has no place in a wet area, regardless of what anyone says. It's organic and a sponge.

The benefit of the Kerdi Gaskets is to keep all moisture on the wet side of the shower.

Only use premium caulk. It makes no sense to use cheap caulk after you have spent thousands on a shower.
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Drywall has no place in a wet area, regardless of what anyone says. It's organic and a sponge.
I would agree to this statement. However, Schluter even has a demonstrating video on their website where they install the membrane directly over regular drywall. The faucet seal is not much, I will probably go with that.
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:08 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ckrohn83 View Post
I would agree to this statement. However, Schluter even has a demonstrating video on their website where they install the membrane directly over regular drywall. The faucet seal is not much, I will probably go with that.
There is no however. Like I said, no matter what anyone says, drywall does not belong in a wet area. There is no need. A few more dollars and you have a material that will not mold or deteriorate if it comes in contact with moisture.

The industry is a bit wishy washy on the subject but the leaning is always that it doesn't belong in a wet area.

"Is drywall a suitable "solid backing" for methods B421 and B422?

B421 and B422 are shower methods in the TCNA Handbook in which a waterproof membrane is applied over an unspecified solid backing. The membrane must cover the solid backing under the entire area to be tiled. We are often asked if drywall is a suitable backing for these shower methods.

While some membrane manufacturers promote use of their membrane in such installations with drywall as the solid backing, other membrane manufacturers do not. At the same time, not all drywall manufacturers recommend their product be used in a shower, even if a membrane will be applied to the surface. Thus, the Handbook leaves the determination of a suitable membrane/backer board combination up to the membrane and backer board manufacturers to declare and up to the design professional to select/specify. Where materials manufacturers do not agree on a particular recommendation, a manufacturer is offering what's called a proprietary recommendation.

The International Building Code (IBC) is somewhat ambiguous on the topic. Many in the construction industry interpret it to say drywall is strictly prohibited in wet areas, regardless of whether a waterproof membrane would be applied to the surface of the drywall. Others feel the code only prohibits direct bond of tile to drywall in wet areas. Check with a local code official for your area requirements."


https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/63-steam-rooms.html
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:22 PM   #20
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A pipe seal is a good idea for multi-head showers where the heads are low.

http://www.obeo.com/tourimages/70/70...ower1_1200.jpg

Not sure what you mean by "type" of thinset. On both sides of Kerdi (Kerdi to wall, tile to Kerdi) goes unmodified thinset. I personally use Mapei Kerabond. There are other quality unmodified thinsets. It should be mixed a little on the soupy side for Kerdi to wall, standard for tile to Kerdi.

Personally I think all the seams shown in the Kerdi videos and instructions are a waste of time. If you can manage it (especially if you have a helper), you can just overlap the Kerdi with few seams. For a tub surround, for example, you don't need any seams at all. Wrap the first sheet from the shower wall, to the long wall, and then to the rear wall. It will be an 11 foot section typically. Then do the exact same thing with another sheet above this one, just overlapping it 2".
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:23 PM   #21
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Drywall has no place in a wet area, regardless of what anyone says. It's organic and a sponge.
Oh. Well I guess it's the end of the discussion then.

If you take drywall out of a bathroom, you can go ahead and take all the wood out of there too. Let's not be silly.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:39 PM   #22
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There is no however.
Actually there is. When manufacturer's instructions say so, then it can even trump building codes.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:58 PM   #23
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Oh. Well I guess it's the end of the discussion then.

If you take drywall out of a bathroom, you can go ahead and take all the wood out of there too. Let's not be silly.
Never said to take drywall out of a bathroom, I said wet area. Are you one of those guys that can't see the world around them for their ego? A wet area is not the entire bathroom.

I'm not the one being silly.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:05 PM   #24
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Actually there is. When manufacturer's instructions say so, then it can even trump building codes.
No, there is no reason to install an inferior product in a wet area. No reason to install an organic material in a wet area when there are much more suitable products.

And if your building code does not permit drywall in a shower, it doesn't matter what Schluter says, you will fail inspection and have to appeal to the building department. But they don't "trump" building codes.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPro View Post
A few more dollars and you have a material that will not mold or deteriorate if it comes in contact with moisture.
Well... the more expensive water resistant products may not deteriorate, but just about anything will mold up if there is consistent moisture with the right temperature. A good build will include not only a secondary membrane but also some breathing room to dry out should it get wet because the big deal isn't so much getting wet... it's how long it takes to dry when it does get wet.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:27 PM   #26
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Never said to take drywall out of a bathroom, I said wet area.
The shower is a wet area. The shower pan is sitting on the subfloor which is made of wood. Wood is organic and it soaks up water. So you need to get that wood out of that wet area.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:30 PM   #27
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A good build will include not only a secondary membrane but also some breathing room to dry out should it get wet because the big deal isn't so much getting wet... it's how long it takes to dry when it does get wet.
That's a moot point. Most places trapped behind shower materials are not ever going to dry, especially if the shower is used every day. Letting some material "breathe" in a wet area is not a viable strategy. The correct strategy is to waterproof it.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:34 PM   #28
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No, there is no reason to install an inferior product in a wet area.
There is a reason to install drywall there. And it's not inferior - it's the system, not just the single product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownPro View Post
No reason to install an organic material in a wet area when there are much more suitable products.
The area behind a Kerdi membrane is not wet, therefore water resistance and mold resistance are not criteria.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sanders View Post
Well... the more expensive water resistant products may not deteriorate, but just about anything will mold up if there is consistent moisture with the right temperature. A good build will include not only a secondary membrane but also some breathing room to dry out should it get wet because the big deal isn't so much getting wet... it's how long it takes to dry when it does get wet.
Organics and the proper ph are required for mold or mildew growth.

Secondary membrane? That is what will cause extended dry times. CBU, waterproof and tile...it's not that complicated. The wall can breath from the back if needed.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:47 PM   #30
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The shower is a wet area. The shower pan is sitting on the subfloor which is made of wood. Wood is organic and it soaks up water. So you need to get that wood out of that wet area.
I thought that you were the one trying to get the silly out of the conversation.

The properties of wood are far different than drywall. Do me a favor. Soak some drywall in water and a 2x4 block, then get back to me. If there were better products I would recommend using them. All of my water proofing is designed to keep the moisture away from the wood.

I find it funny that you talk about manufacturers instructions yet are telling people that they don't need to tape and corner as the manufacturer instructs. There is a reason you seam Kerdi the way they instruct. Dismissing it would be a mistake especially when you are talking to HO and amateurs.
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