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Old 09-08-2014, 10:14 AM   #1
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Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor


Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum and this post is documenting the progress of the remodel of my small 2nd floor bathroom and I'm also seeking for advice as I go.

As you can see on the images below the bathroom was outdated, but that alone didn't call for a remodel. Some of the tiles came off the wall, the vinyl floor started peeling up and mainly we had some plumbing issues.

(In short, the shower drain didn't work but the drain pipe was not clogged. Same issue appeared to the sink a while later. I used a 7 foot inspection camera and pushed it down the shower drain - nothing found.) So while I am tearing everything down I will investigate this issue further and maybe someone is able to help.

Goal: The tub will remain in the current location, I will be tiling around the shower/tub walls using backer board and waterproof sealer (Don't know the name of that) - or can I just tape and thinset the seams?
My wife wants to swap sink and toilet position and based on the subfloor board direction the floor joists seem to work in my favor. I will post pictures once I have the floor opened up. But having a vanity in the right corner and then the toilet makes much more sense space-wise.

If you wondered. The door in the back actually leads to the attic - no idea why you want to access the attic through the bathroom but that's how they build this old house. Best explanation: the steps leading up to the attic are right on top of the steps leading up from the 1st to the 2nd floor.

Alright, enough of this... I will post pictures and I am open to suggestions.
Attached Thumbnails
Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8281.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8283.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8284.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8285.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8286.jpg  

Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8287.jpg  
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #2
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Also, the wall space is 60 inches between the right wall and the trim of the door to the attic. Local codes call for 4" on each side of the toilet giving me a minium of 28" for my toilet. That leaves me 32" for the vanity.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:16 PM   #3
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Update on the Demo


Here is a little update. The demo is about 90% done. Obviously the door and window trim was attached onto the slats that covered the walls. I don't really want to tear off the trim and put it back on. I think I will frame around it to give the drywall something to hang on to. But I need to clean up the broken slat pieces with a saw of some sort first. The studs are covered with nails that were holding the slats in place. I will have to remove all of those as well.

Unfortunately when they build the house they used the 2x4 sideways in the shower wall. I was planning on putting two recessed shelves in the wall for the shampoo and such. Now it's awfully tight. I will have to get creative. I don't want to do that in the outside wall since that part will be filled with insulation.

I will have to fix some minor electrical issues as well. Overall there is no mold, no rot - everything is sound. I hope the walls are fairly plum and I don't need to shim much to get everything straight. After finishing the demo I will start tearing up the floor and lay the new toilet drain pipe. Once the floor is open I will have a decent understanding on how to tackle that.

So far so good.
Attached Thumbnails
Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8299.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8300.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8301.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8302.jpg   Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-img_8303.jpg  

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Old 09-08-2014, 06:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckrohn83 View Post
Goal: The tub will remain in the current location, I will be tiling around the shower/tub walls using backer board and waterproof sealer (Don't know the name of that) - or can I just tape and thinset the seams?
You need separate waterproofing. Personally I'd use Kerdi.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckrohn83 View Post
Unfortunately when they build the house they used the 2x4 sideways in the shower wall. I was planning on putting two recessed shelves in the wall for the shampoo and such. Now it's awfully tight. I will have to get creative.
Save from moving the tub and reframing, it looks like you'll have to put in wall mount shelving. Many options.

http://home.comcast.net/~deckcetera/...%20Shelves.JPG

http://st.houzz.com/simgs/7da15a7201...er-caddies.jpg

http://www.1topnotchremodeling.com/D...p_800x1066.jpg

http://www.showershampooshelf-recess...20shelves3.jpg

http://www.lonestarglassco.net/image...s/DSC01353.JPG

https://customeps.com/upload/images/l-IMG_0044.jpg

https://customeps.com/upload/images/l-img_4051.jpg
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:39 AM   #6
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Jeffnc, I like the ideas you posted. I will probably do the tiled corner shelves. It's gonna be more work - but worth it.

Either one of these:
https://customeps.com/upload/images/l-IMG_0044.jpg
https://customeps.com/upload/images/l-img_4051.jpg

Thanks for the ideas!

Tell me a bit more about the Kerdi system. What are the major benefits over cement board. As far as I know, I can get a durable and waterproof end result with cement board. I have installed cement board a few times and it is fairly easy to handle, to work with and gives me a great result. It appears to me that the Kerdi system is a lot more expensive. So if there is a major benefit that justifies the extra expense, I am willing to listen.
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:30 AM   #7
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Kerdi


Jeffnc - are you talking about the Kerdiboard instead of the cement board or would you install the cement board on the studs and then seal with Kerdi waterproof membrane?
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:08 PM   #8
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Plumbing


I am planning to replace most of the copper plumbing with CPVC plumbing. The cast iron toilet drain will be replaced and relocated using a 3" PVC drain pipe. I could use copper, but I think CPVC is easier to handle and installation is faster. What do you think?
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:45 PM   #9
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No I wasn't talking about Kerdiboard. I suppose that stuff is nice - I've used it briefly - but it's really expensive.

Cement board alone doesn't give you a waterproof system. Cement board isn't waterproof. It's water resistant, meaning that if it gets wet, it will be fine. But water will wick through that into the studs behind, etc. Even if you use cement board, you still need some waterproofing system. So when the OP asked if he could just tape the seams, I said no - he still needs the waterproofing.

So you have your choice of waterproofing - Kerdi, or RedGard or something like that.

You can put Kerdi over cement board, but drywall is easier to handle and install than cement board, so I use drywall. So in a tub surround, you have more options with Kerdi. If you take out a fiberglass surround with drywall behind, you can simply slap Kerdi on top of that and tile. The real benefits of a Kerdi shower are with a full shower system, but even for a tub surround I see no reason to hassle with cement board when drywall is easier.
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:59 PM   #10
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I think the Kerdi system is a great system, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are familiar with the process and the technique. You really need to get the thinset even under the system and that can be quite frustrating for the first time user. And you won't know it until you go to tile and find the lumps.

It also gets installed on top of the cement board.

I would stick with your original plan and use a brush/roll on liquid membrane system. There is much forgiveness and it's super easy to install.

Thinset the seams of the cement board using a mesh CBU tape. This will strengthen the seams as well as bring the tapered edges into plane. Use Fibafuse on the corners. Three coat the seams and two coat the walls. Make sure that you are paying attention to the screw holes as well as holes in the CBU. This is why I always use a brush instead of a roller to apply the membrane. It ensures that you are up close and personal with the process and works the membrane in every nook and cranny.

Bathroom Remodel 2nd floor-20140630_082652.jpg
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:25 AM   #11
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Awesome! Thanks for the replies. I will run over to the local home center and check out the Kerdi and Redguard (or whatever they may have). Regarding the shower head, valve and faucet: If I were to go with the Kerdi, I assume I would need extra pieces that fit exactly the size of the pipe sticking out the wall. Also, if I were to use Kerdi, can I just put greenboard all around the bathroom walls and install Kerdi over it? If Kerdi is a 100% waterproofing system it shouldn't matter if I have regular drywall or greenboard. However, I will be installing greenboard everywhere else on the walls in the bathroom so I might just use the same for the tub surround.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:39 AM   #12
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You're right it doesn't matter, but it makes sense to use whatever you're already using for drywall. You can get faucet and shower head seals for Kerdi if you want. It's not necessary at the shower head because the shower head is so high (in most showers this just goes straight into drywall anyway.) It's most useful at the faucet. But even there you can just cut around the hole as you go, and finish the edge with a polyurethane caulk (supposed to be Kerdi Fix, but it's very expensive).

Or buy
http://www.lowes.com/pd_433965-36265...ductId=4190337

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:41 AM   #13
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Did you find out why there was a drain problem?

Get the med cabinet first - if you plan on recessed. And since it's all open, I would replace the tub drain assembly. I am not sure if these brands are still sold, but Gerber or Kohler are good quality, metal, fit and chrome. Homedepot (even if it says solid brass) is low. For these buried plumbing parts, plumber's store is a better bet.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:08 AM   #14
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carpdad, I have not looked further into this. The shower drain is accessible from the closet behind it. I will replace the shower plumbing. It's currently PVC and looks OK. There is a cast iron drain pipe running from the shower across the bathroom and I assume it enters right into the main drain pipe that goes all the way into the basement. When I scoped the shower drain pipe out with the telescope camera, I did not find any clogging whatsoever. I will probably open the floor while I relocate the toilet and replace that cast iron part with PVC as well. I will push the camera down the sink drain to see if there is anything...

Could it be an airflow issue? When I used the water in the sink it quickly filled up and took hours to drain. I will keep you posted if I find anything. I will get back at it this weekend.

Last edited by ckrohn83; 09-10-2014 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:53 AM   #15
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Agreed on the polyurethane caulk, I will only need the caulk for the faucet and valve anyways. A pipe seal for the shower head is probably overkill, I agree. What type of thinset do you use to attach the Kerdi membrane? Do you do overlap joints or use the 5" tape to transition? What type of thinset is best to use to adhere the tile to the membrane?
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