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Old 02-04-2019, 08:01 AM   #16
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss;
@jaketrades Is there any particular reason you want one bedroom up front? I can do a lot better layout with all three bedrooms in the back if you'd like.
I didn't want to put a bedroom upfront, but it seemed like the best place to get another bedroom in.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how to get another bedroom into the back.

Here are the restrictions as per NYC code:

For a bedroom to be considered legal in NYC, it must satisfy the following requirements:
Be a minimum of 80 square feet
Have a minimum width of 8 feet in any dimension
Have a minimum ceiling height of 8 feet
At least one window measuring no less than twelve square feet
There cannot be a need to pass through any other bedroom in order to access the bedroom
Two means of egress, including a window and a door that can be opened from the inside

There are a few exceptions to the requirements above, which include:
If the apartment has three or more bedrooms, one-half of the bedrooms may have a minimum dimension of 7 feet.
If the bedroom is in a basement or on the top floor of a converted dwelling (such as a brownstone with multiple apartments, it must have a minimum ceiling height of 7 feet.
If the bedroom has a sloped ceiling, there must be a clear ceiling height of 7 feet over at least 1/3rd of the room.
The window cannot be a lot-line window. The window must open onto a street, yard or court on the same lot.
You should also know that a bedroom in NYC is NOT required to have a closet for it to be considered a legal bedroom.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:05 AM   #17
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


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@Nealtw I moved the vanity in bathroom #1 as per your suggestion. It solved a couple of problems for me. Thx.

Here's the latest floorplan. Still messing around with the kitchen and closets.... ignore the disarray outside of the bathrooms.
I played with that angle just to give you a bigger door into the shower.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:02 AM   #18
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


-What's the status of the abandoned fireplaces? Any flues? What's coming up the bath chase vs. the fireplaces? Any chance of removing those would help greatly.
-Where's the steam radiators located, keeping them as are?
-What's the 2nd stair door for? Which one is the main entry?
-Can the 2nd window in the back bedroom be removed? Is there an egress staircase stuck on the back of building?
-Is the front wall really mis-aligned on either side of the bay bumpout?
-What's the angled counter thing in the kitchen?
-Is there an electric water heater per floor and the subpanel is in the basement?
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:28 PM   #19
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


@jaketrades The no lot line window requirement is problematic indeed. I'd fiddled something up last night, but I'm not sure if it'll work for the bedrooms, but the bath layout is a bit better at least. So the question; is that "entry/mudroom" area (the one that's 205") is that exterior? If so I think you can snake around the rule and put in a window facing forward (not the side one obviously, I'd put that one in last night) as I've shown - you'd want to check with the Muni of course, but technically, such a window would be facing the street or backyard heh

Bathroom layout question...-idea.jpg
Bathroom layout question...-idea3d.jpg


I'll fiddle with the bedroom up front idea tonight, gotta do some other stuff atm. Can you explain what the entry is though, is it a stair well, covered porch, etc?
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Last edited by Mystriss; 02-04-2019 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:26 AM   #20
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3onthetree;
-What's the status of the abandoned fireplaces? Any flues? What's coming up the bath chase vs. the fireplaces? Any chance of removing those would help greatly.
-Where's the steam radiators located, keeping them as are?
-What's the 2nd stair door for? Which one is the main entry?
-Can the 2nd window in the back bedroom be removed? Is there an egress staircase stuck on the back of building?
-Is the front wall really mis-aligned on either side of the bay bumpout?
-What's the angled counter thing in the kitchen?
-Is there an electric water heater per floor and the subpanel is in the basement?
- Fireplaces - you nailed it. Those are a pain in the ass for the layout. One of them is being used a boiler flue. The other 2 are abandoned. Removing those 2 would generate a tremendous amount of garbage and may or may not compromise the building. I've seen some professional builders across the street maintain the fireplaces (non functional). Still debating what to do with those 2.

- The bath chase has the soil stack and water supply lines.

- I've labeled the steam radiators on the update floor plan. They are moveable to some extant.

- Two doors into the stairwell is standard out here.

- Why would you remove the window? Yes there is a fire escape out the back of the building.

- Front wall mis-aligned - no this is just my lack of drawing skills.
- Kitchen Angled counter - i haven't laid out the kitchen yet. I just put some predefined objects there as placeholders.

- Water heater - one gas water heater for the building.
- Each apartment has its own electrical panel

Last edited by jaketrades; 02-05-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:45 AM   #21
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
@jaketrades The no lot line window requirement is problematic indeed. I'd fiddled something up last night, but I'm not sure if it'll work for the bedrooms, but the bath layout is a bit better at least. So the question; is that "entry/mudroom" area (the one that's 205") is that exterior? If so I think you can snake around the rule and put in a window facing forward (not the side one obviously, I'd put that one in last night) as I've shown - you'd want to check with the Muni of course, but technically, such a window would be facing the street or backyard heh

Attachment 548981
Attachment 548983


I'll fiddle with the bedroom up front idea tonight, gotta do some other stuff atm. Can you explain what the entry is though, is it a stair well, covered porch, etc?
Thanks so much for creating a layout. I didn't describe the building layout adequately - this is a 3 story attached building (plus basement).

The bathrooms are restricted to the area I placed them b/c that's where the soil stack is located.

What layout software are you using?
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:53 AM   #22
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Updated layout. I gave the bedroom upfront just one window. Makes the bedroom useable (full size bed) and doesn't kill the living room. The bedroom's entrance door kills a lot of furniture layout options in the living room. Again that fireplace is killing me. If I had to pick one to remove it would be the living room fireplace.
Attached Thumbnails
Bathroom layout question...-3rd-floor-layout.jpg  

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Old 02-05-2019, 09:20 AM   #23
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


@jaketrades Updated layout helps a lot to see what you're dealing with \o/ I haven't had time to really fiddle with this again yet unfortunately, but I'll try to get to it when I get up.

I've been using Punch! Architectural Series basically since it came out... idk 10-15 years ago(?) They have different [aka cheaper] versions though, depending on what all you're looking to do. Their $40 Home & Landscape isn't bad, but I can't remember the exact differences between it and my version. There is a bit of a learning curve with this software, but it's powerful once you get the hang of it.

I bet you could find the older versions of Architectural on Amazon for fairly cheap - Architectural Series V19 is basically the same as (the current) v20, (v19 and v20 basically have a new elevation editor, better roofing tools, a faster render engine, better custom object importing, and you can view 3d in a separate window.) AS5000 was pretty awesome and I used that for a really long time,) AS4000 wasn't bad, but personally I'd worry about it not working with Windows 10 so probably don't want to go that far back. https://www.punchsoftware.com/
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Last edited by Mystriss; 02-05-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:52 AM   #24
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


It might be helpful to give accurate overall dimensions since some posters are trying some layouts. It looks like you're fighting for inches.

Fireplace - Around here people on CL beg for cheap fill, but you might have to go to NJ. You're already moving mountains with 2 more floors to go, it might be worth the trouble to get rid of em. Even just the front wythe leaving the back brick in the common wall you might gain 10 inches or more. Can box any flues tight then.

Stair - you can't eliminate a 2nd door? You could recapture some space at least on the 3rd floor. And more options for furniture layout on walls.

2nd window in bedroom - just looking for more wall space for closets etc.

Emerg stair - people like to use them for BBQ and partying. Just thinking about a less impeded access/view to a back window.

H2O - boiler heated in basement? 6 baths, 3 kitchens with DW and washer.

Panel - in wall at a back bedroom? Didn't know if the closet next to W/D was fixed location for that.

Bath exhaust - going out the false ceiling to back wall or thru chase to roof?

One trick for tight spaces is to chamfer a corner of a room where the door is. Also a chamfered closet wall can sometimes give an illusion of a bigger room.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:20 PM   #25
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Whatcha think of this one?

Bathroom layout question...-idea2.jpg Bathroom layout question...-idea2-3d.jpg Bathroom layout question...-idea2-3d2.jpg Bathroom layout question...-idea2-3d4.jpg Bathroom layout question...-idea2-3d3.jpg

(cutout view to show bathrooms)
Bathroom layout question...-idea2-3d5.jpg
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:32 AM   #26
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3onthetree;
It might be helpful to give accurate overall dimensions since some posters are trying some layouts. It looks like you're fighting for inches.

Fireplace - Around here people on CL beg for cheap fill, but you might have to go to NJ. You're already moving mountains with 2 more floors to go, it might be worth the trouble to get rid of em. Even just the front wythe leaving the back brick in the common wall you might gain 10 inches or more. Can box any flues tight then.

Stair - you can't eliminate a 2nd door? You could recapture some space at least on the 3rd floor. And more options for furniture layout on walls.

2nd window in bedroom - just looking for more wall space for closets etc.

Emerg stair - people like to use them for BBQ and partying. Just thinking about a less impeded access/view to a back window.

H2O - boiler heated in basement? 6 baths, 3 kitchens with DW and washer.

Panel - in wall at a back bedroom? Didn't know if the closet next to W/D was fixed location for that.

Bath exhaust - going out the false ceiling to back wall or thru chase to roof?

One trick for tight spaces is to chamfer a corner of a room where the door is. Also a chamfered closet wall can sometimes give an illusion of a bigger room.
Fireplace : Good call on CL - there are plenty of artsy people around here that would take the bricks off my hand. I'll investigate on what it takes to safely remove the chimney or just the wythe.

Staircase 2nd door is an egress requirement.

Fire escape - It's an old school NYC fire escape. No one is going out there. However - I do have a huge rooftop. But that's another project all together.

H20..... darn good point. I have a 75K BTU 75 gallon gas water heater that provides hot water to the entire building. I'll have to do some load calculations to see if that can handle everything. I am considering dropping down separate hot water copper lines for each unit through my plumbing chase. That way one day I can install separate water heaters for each unit and have the tenant's pay for their own hot water. I plan on putting an access panel on the chase to make that modification.

Electrical panels: There are 4 panels in the basement. One for each floor and one for the hallways, cellar. However the 3rd floor has another sub-panel in the staircase area. Not sure why that was done.

Bath exhaust - for the 3rd floor unit I'll be going up the chase to the roof. For the lower floors most likely will be going out to the back wall. I'm not sure a fan from the first floor can carry exhaust up 25'.


Thanks
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:43 AM   #27
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


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Whatcha think of this one?
Love the kitchen layout - even if I could get 3 stools comfortably in I'd be happy. What are your thoughts on putting the range on the peninsula vs the sink? My thoughts are the cook can stay involved in the activities in the living room while preparing food. And I'd have to make less plumbing turns if the sink was on the wall. Plus venting the sink on a peninsula is tricky.

Bi fold doors: They are great space saves but are they reliable? My first apartment had them and they always seem to fall out of the track.

Door swing direction: you're swinging all the doors into the room. Is that the preferred way?

I'm liking the way you put closets into the bedrooms in the back. They seem to flow a lot better than my clunky placement.

Thanks!!!
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:59 PM   #28
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


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Love the kitchen layout - even if I could get 3 stools comfortably in I'd be happy. What are your thoughts on putting the range on the peninsula vs the sink? My thoughts are the cook can stay involved in the activities in the living room while preparing food. And I'd have to make less plumbing turns if the sink was on the wall. Plus venting the sink on a peninsula is tricky.

Bi fold doors: They are great space saves but are they reliable? My first apartment had them and they always seem to fall out of the track.

Door swing direction: you're swinging all the doors into the room. Is that the preferred way?

I'm liking the way you put closets into the bedrooms in the back. They seem to flow a lot better than my clunky placement.

Thanks!!!
Range would work alright in the peninsula instead, especially with the pub height bar in there. Though you're going to have to vent the range, yeah? I'd go with a downdraft vent rather than a hanging one. Although I have seen some beautiful mostly glass overhead vents that would be a statement there - as long as you could put it high enough anyway (My microwave vent requirements was 18" above the range top, doesn't suck any further away than that.)

A few reason's I'd put the sink in the peninsula:
I figured a microwave with a direct vent would be easier to put on the exterior wall. (That's what I have in my kitchen.)

When folks are using the range, they kind of expect to have a cabinet in their face. When doing dishes/using the sink, not so much. If you put the sink on the wall, I'd suggest not putting a cabinet over it; maybe do a wallpaper fresco of a window or a high display shelf.

I originally had a counter height bar thinking it'd be easier to find chairs, which made me worry about burning things when folks invariably work on non eating related projects at the bar area. However it didn't look right with the counter height bar, not enough visual separation between the kitchen and living area so I went to pub height.

You should be able to run all the pipes for the sink/dishwasher inside a false wall against the back of the cabinets (on the "living room" side of the room) then across inside the floor to the stack, or if you have a vent/drain for the washer dryer in the backish area, could run it there too or were you thinking to run it [and the washer] up/down through that abandoned fireplace vent area in that back room?)

Bi-fold doors - I've never had a problem with them personally.

I put them in bedroom closets specifically because they take up less floor space/wall real estate for desks/beds - with a traditional hinge door you lose say 2'7" of wall real estate in front of the closet, vs with a bi-fold you only loose like 1'6". They also make it a lot easier to get into the closet.

In the bedroom with the 5'10" closet, you could easily do a sliding door - probably would be better actually, but the other bedroom is only a 3' opening, and the pantry and linen closet doors are only 1' 5" opening; all of which I'm not sure you could find sliding doors for.

I did a bi-fold on the laundry because I figure those doors are going to be open 99% of the time as folks do laundry and leave their baskets in front of the washer/dryer. If you did a double [hinged] door there it'd interfere with the bedroom door when left open. You do not want to do a sliding door there - I had one on my condo laundry and I hated the functionality of it so much I took them off and stored them in the basement for 5 years.

As a related note the bi-fold doors on the laundry here at this house were horrible too because they overlapped the washer/dryer so I couldn't use my pedestal drawers, I took them off also and they're in the basement right now (which is why I made the laundry opening in the layout for you a bit wider than your 44" plan :P)

If you wanted to get creative, do a turner hinge doors so they can rotate and slide into the "laundry closet" - I suppose it depends how much you're renting these for as to if you want to invest the money on something cool like that heh


Door swing into rooms - Tradition mostly, but there is something to be said for bedroom and bathroom doors being open 99% of the time for temperature regulation. If we leave our bedroom doors closed the thermostat in the hall won't call for heat when it's getting nippy. If you put a thermostat in each room that's not a problem though. (I've even heard that fancy thermostats can "talk" to each other and determine an "average" temp of the entire house as to when to call for heat/AC.)

Also, if you swing the opposite way in the "bottom" bedroom it'll be in the way of the laundry. If you swing the opposite way in the first bathroom it'll be in the way of the entry door. If you swing the second bathroom the opposite way it'll be in the way of the linen closet (whatever) and a bit in the way of the "top-right" bedroom door (not so bad though.)

The linen and pantry doors swing out already (I'd just saved the image with them closed because the picture got a bit too busy to see measurements)
You could pocket door the second bathroom and the "bottom" bedroom.

If you switch the swing direction on the first bathroom I'd switch the sink and toilet, and put a pocket door on the other wall.

If you wanted to switch the swing direction on the "top left" [front?] bedroom, I'd put the door on the wall in front of the bay window and go pocket door - it's an angled wall to get the required sq-ft, but a pocket would still work.

Could pocket door the second bathroom and the "bottom" bedroom doors.

On the "top right" bedroom I'd flip the hinge side, then the door when left open would only block the linen closet area - optionally you could take out the linen closet and use that as bedroom closet instead.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:57 AM   #29
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Range vs Sink on peninsula - I prefer the sink on the peninsula but the plumbing was an issue. I like the false wall idea. And then increase the overhang on the countertop to provide adequate knee room for seated guests.

Kitchen venting - I’ve read the downdraft vents are not that effective. I like the glass overhead vent idea. And they aren’t that expensive.

Pub height - How did you cheat up the counters to pub height? What did you put on top of the cabinets?

Bi-fold doors - I will have to revisit these. Perhaps the one’s I used were cheap.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:09 AM   #30
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Re: Bathroom layout question...


Renters and bi fold doors don't play well together.
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