Advice On Bathroom Remodel - Kitchen & Bath Remodeling - Page 5 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Remodeling > Kitchen & Bath Remodeling

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 06-28-2015, 04:21 PM   #61
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 6,023
Rewards Points: 748
Default


You need to fill that area just like the rest of the floor, deck mud.

Repair or replace any boards that need it. Then staple tarpaper or plastic, staple metal lath, place deck mud made from a mix of 5 parts damp sand to 1 part Portland cement. Dry mix then add water and mix to make an very dry "beach sand" "sand castle" consistency. You should be able to make a ball in your hand with it and your hand will not get wet, just moist.

Use the existing floor as a screed and you can place another board against the outer wall as the second. Dump, spread, tamp then pull a wooden screed to shave off the excess. A wooden float comes in handy. Finish with a finishing trowel.

Jaz
__________________
TILE GUY - retired- TROY, MI - Method & Product suitability consulting.

MARBLE from ITALY & GREECE -PERLATO-PERLATINO-BOTTICINO-THASSOS-SIVEC-VOLAKAS-CALACATTA- NAXOS-Slabs-Tiles-Custom containers shipped to you - [email protected]
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2015, 04:35 PM   #62
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default

Advice on Bathroom Remodel


I was told I could use sheets of 4x8ft plywood to build up the height, then use a cement board, then tile, rather than the deck mud.

Besides, the deck mud wouldn't be ideal because I'm not tiling everything, just from the edge of the tub to the existing tile.

Last edited by Solidify; 06-28-2015 at 04:41 PM.
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2015, 05:45 PM   #63
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 6,023
Rewards Points: 748
Default


Actually the deck mud would be the very best way to go. It's also the cheapest and strongest and will take less time. I can understand that you're afraid to go that way though.

I'm gonna bet that your present floor isn't exactly the same thickness at the edge. It would be very unlikely that you'll end up flush by using a combination of layers of ply and then concrete backer with thinset under it.

It's not that difficult if you wanna try. We can help either way.

Jaz
__________________
TILE GUY - retired- TROY, MI - Method & Product suitability consulting.

MARBLE from ITALY & GREECE -PERLATO-PERLATINO-BOTTICINO-THASSOS-SIVEC-VOLAKAS-CALACATTA- NAXOS-Slabs-Tiles-Custom containers shipped to you - [email protected]
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2015, 06:24 PM   #64
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


That's kind of you to offer helping with the deck mud. I've never done it before that's why.

Is the deck mud what holds the tiles in place? In other words, do I need to set the tiles on the mud while it's curing?
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 07:17 PM   #65
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 6,023
Rewards Points: 748
Default


No, it's the base just like the old floor. You tile the next day or next week or when ever.

Jaz
__________________
TILE GUY - retired- TROY, MI - Method & Product suitability consulting.

MARBLE from ITALY & GREECE -PERLATO-PERLATINO-BOTTICINO-THASSOS-SIVEC-VOLAKAS-CALACATTA- NAXOS-Slabs-Tiles-Custom containers shipped to you - [email protected]
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 07:19 PM   #66
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 25,728
Rewards Points: 7,174
Default


The tile will be set with thinset after the deck mud is set---deck mud is like damp beach sand--rather easy to level out and pack as you need it.

When set, mix a small batch of modified thinset and set your tiles.
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 07:19 PM   #67
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 25,728
Rewards Points: 7,174
Default


Jaz beat met to the answer.
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2015, 08:01 PM   #68
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


So if I'm understanding this correctly, the tile is glued to the cured deck mud using thinset mortar?

A couple of questions:

1. How hard is it to remove that mud bed if several years down the line I decide to completely remodel?
2. How will I account for the cracks between the panels and the drain cutout when pouring the mud? Won't the mud falls through, even after replacing that obviously wide gap?
Attached Thumbnails
Advice on Bathroom Remodel-img_1607.jpg  

Last edited by Solidify; 06-28-2015 at 08:28 PM.
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 06:29 AM   #69
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 25,728
Rewards Points: 7,174
Default


Mud bed does not go under the tub---use plywood.

The old mud bed will be messy but not that difficult to remove---it will crack easily by prying a bit and smacking it with a hammer---the mesh will need cutting with a chisel or tin snips---but it will break up rather easily---

Often you need to pound a 'starter hole' by hitting one spot repeatedly until the old bed is a crumbled powder--then get a pry bar under the slab--once lifted even the slightest amount--it will crack easily when hit.

I recommend removing the old floor before adding the new tub,if the floor will be replaced some time soon---if you don't--the tub will be to high for the new floor.

I have a rotary chipping hammer (look like a big drill) with a variety of chisels that make demo much faster---they can be rented if the job is to tedious to do with hand tools.
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--

Last edited by oh'mike; 06-29-2015 at 06:32 AM.
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 07:33 AM   #70
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


Im confused, I'm being suggested that a deck mud is what is required but now you're mentionning that I should use plywood to build the height.
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 09:11 AM   #71
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default

Advice on Bathroom Remodel


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
You need to fill that area just like the rest of the floor, deck mud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
Mud bed does not go under the tub---use plywood.

.....
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 11:01 AM   #72
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 6,023
Rewards Points: 748
Default


Under normal building conditions the tub would already be installed way before the tilework is done. So is think that is why Mike automatically said what he said. In this case your priority it the fill the space between where the tub will end and the old mud set floor. It's easier and better to mud the space so you can get it the same level as the old floor.

On the other hand you could set the tub on the planks or install a layer of ply then set the tub and finish with mud or a combination of ply and concrete backer and hope you can get it flat. If you set the tub first, it'll be buried a little.

If you go with ply and backer, you're gonna have a cold joint which is more liable to crack the tile work some day too. The kind of fill I'm suggesting is done everyday especially when remodeling where the old mud is kept but the old vanity leaves a hole

Jaz
__________________
TILE GUY - retired- TROY, MI - Method & Product suitability consulting.

MARBLE from ITALY & GREECE -PERLATO-PERLATINO-BOTTICINO-THASSOS-SIVEC-VOLAKAS-CALACATTA- NAXOS-Slabs-Tiles-Custom containers shipped to you - [email protected]
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 02:12 PM   #73
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default

Advice on Bathroom Remodel


I see your point jaz.

"It's easier and better to mud the space so you can get it the same level as the old floor."

That's the biggest enticing factor to go with the mud. I still think that if I go with the mud, I'd still screw down atleast one sheet of 4x8 plywood to avoid the bits falling in the cracks of subfloor's panel (and also to make cleanup easier should we ever decide to completely remodel and need to remove the deck mud). However, the one thing you've forgotten to clarify is how I'll do the deck mud with the cutout for the drain under the tub...would I need to screw down a couple 2x4s temporarily to the subfloor to act as a form for the pour?

I'm just wondering if substituting half an inch of deck mud for the ply would render the deck mud considerably weaker/more britle for mounting afterwards?

Jaz, can you confirm this with the images I posted of the thicknesses to be acheived? Because from what I can see, it looks like they originally poured the mud directly onto those subfloor panels.

Thanks

Last edited by Solidify; 06-29-2015 at 02:36 PM.
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 04:27 PM   #74
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 6,023
Rewards Points: 748
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidify
I still think that if I go with the mud, I'd still screw down atleast one sheet of 4x8 plywood to avoid the bits falling in the cracks of subfloor's panel (and also to make cleanup easier should we ever decide to completely remodel and need to remove the deck mud)
That was one of the options I mentioned above. The bits will not fall in the cracks of the planks. Tarpaper...remember? It will get messy when you remove everything someday though. But, who cares, there's just tarpaper under the rest of the room. I don't see the point of installing another layer of ply unless those planks are in poor shape. If you do, go with " or thicker exposure 1 with no face lower than "C".

Quote:
However, the one thing you've forgotten to clarify is how I'll do the deck mud with the cutout for the drain under the tub...would I need to screw down a couple 2x4s temporarily to the subfloor to act as a form for the pour?
Deck mud is controllable, you can easily make a dam out of it, make a wooden box form or even set a pail there or?...........you'll figure it out.

Quote:
I'm just wondering if substituting half an inch of deck mud for the ply would render the deck mud considerably weaker/more britle for mounting afterwards?
You need over 2", keep the mud thicker than " and all will be fine. As it is, if you install " ply you'll have a 1 ⅝" to go. You can drive a truck over that.

Quote:
Jaz, can you confirm this with the images I posted of the thicknesses to be acheived? Because from what I can see, it looks like they originally poured the mud directly onto those subfloor panels.
There's tarpaper over the planks, then metal lath, then I see 1 " of deck mud/dry pack.

Jaz
__________________
TILE GUY - retired- TROY, MI - Method & Product suitability consulting.

MARBLE from ITALY & GREECE -PERLATO-PERLATINO-BOTTICINO-THASSOS-SIVEC-VOLAKAS-CALACATTA- NAXOS-Slabs-Tiles-Custom containers shipped to you - [email protected]
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2015, 04:54 PM   #75
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


Ok, I will proceed with the deck mud. Hopefully it goes well since I've never done anything like this.

I'm assuming the floor doesn't need to be pre-sloped since I'm prepping for a bath and not a shower, right?
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bathroom Remodel - Need Advice adj83 Remodeling 6 10-24-2011 11:40 PM
The Bathroom Remodel that just kept growing... gpsmith Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 1 05-28-2011 05:25 PM
Noob bathroom remodel jep Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 18 11-22-2009 10:56 AM
Bathroom Remodel MeraleeCrowl Remodeling 4 01-11-2009 07:28 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts