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Old 03-12-2017, 10:42 PM   #1
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Washing machine won't vent


Hello,

My washing machine drain backflows instantly once the drain cycle on the washing machine starts and I cannot figure why, nor could the plumber I had out. When I just put the hot or cold water hose down the drain, it is able to handle the water.

Please see the picture for details on the current setup. The ptrap beneath the slab foundation is not vented and I understand that may be an issue, but the trap above the foundation IS vented and water doesn't even reach the lower trap before the drain backflows. Any ideas on what could be going on? I've used a 50ft auger on the line and it came out completely clean.

Another note: I added the studer vent because I thought that there should be a vent after the trap, not before it. I understand that having two vents as pictured may be unnecessary, but I did not install the attic vent. The studer has helped drainage for when I put one of the supply hoses down the drain, but it still cannot handle it when the actual washing machine drains. HELP!
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:34 PM   #2
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


Venting or lack of venting has nothing to do with the backing up of a washer stand pipe.
Back up would be caused by either a restriction in the drain pipe or the size of the drain pipe.

Why do you say that the trap beneath the floor is not vented and how do you know that?
What size is the stand pipe and drain?
The double trapping could be causing the back up.

Minimum height for a washer stand pipe is 30 inches above the finished floor. That alone may be your problem. Surprised the plumber did not inform you of that.

Remove the Studer valve, connect washer hose there. That should give you indication of the effect of double trapping.

Raise washer box to the minimum 30", higher if possible (max = 48")


Unless you know as a certainty that the trap under the floor is not vented, remove the above floor trap.

PS
You can always seal the connection between the washer hose and the stand pipe. However there is a small risk to doing that.
Some washing machines leave a small amount of water in the tub at the end of the drain cycle. That small amount of water helps the clothes spread around so that the washer doesn't go out of balance during the spin cycle. Sealing the hose/stand pipe connection can cause that water to be siphoned out and cause the machine to go out of balance.

So if you wish, seal the connection (just duct tape it) and see what happens.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:46 PM   #3
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Standpipe is 1.5" and drain is 1.25"

I have tried removing the above ground trap/studer vent and instead installed a gentle slope over to drain and it still wouldn't drain.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:51 PM   #4
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I don't know that the trap below the slab isn't vented, but I can't find any evidence of a vent anywhere.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:06 AM   #5
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Standpipe is 1.5" and drain is 1.25"

I have tried removing the above ground trap/studer vent and instead installed a gentle slope over to drain and it still wouldn't drain.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:49 AM   #6
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


Washer drain line should be 2". I have seen some 1 1/2" that work fine. Never seen a 1 1/4. Sure your plumber is really plumber?

If you can not increase the drain size, consider adding a deep sink to drain into.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:24 AM   #7
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The house was built in the 50s, so the drain from the slab out to the sewer was installed back then, so not my plumbers fault. It is cast iron. The pvc portion behind the wall is 1.5"

Would it help at all to increase that to 2" even though it will be connecting to the 1.25" drain at the floor?
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:55 AM   #8
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


Double trapped and illegal venting might be playing a part. You do not vent the first vertical drop into the first trap. You vent the trap. Remove the underground trap.
Also fire the idiot plumber. You also need it to be 2 inch and it must tie into 2 inch or larger pipe.

Install a utility sink if you want small pipe but still remove the trap under the floor. And vent the utility sink with the studor and trap that sink.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:06 AM   #9
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


Here's my issue with that: The house was built in the 50's. That 1.25 inch drain has been used for 60+ years. When they remodeled the house, the only thing that the changed was the pvc configuration behind the wall as drawn, nothing below the slab. So I don't buy the idea that I would have to tear up all of my flooring and foundation to change something below the slab that has conceivably been working for decades. Yes, 1.25" is small and not preferable, but I own many old rent houses built in the 50s that have that size pipe and it drains fine. This is what confuses me.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:40 AM   #10
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


1.25" and 1.5" worked just fine until a newer machine was designed by some expert that believed the water should all be pumped out within about 7.003 seconds or some such number. That's all a bunch of nonsense.

I corrected the same problem about 50 years ago where a 1.25" drain had 5 short radius 90s in galvanized pipe. All that's required is to restrict pump flow to match your drain system. I did mine with a 1/2" hole in a restricting bushing. OH, I can hear the voices at elevated decibels already. FOR GAWD SAKE, NEVER DO THAT BECAUSE YOU'LL RUIN THE PUMP. No the pump is not a PD ( positive displacement ) pump and that won't ruin it. But it will take possibly 30 seconds longer to discharge the water.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:15 AM   #11
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelroy91 View Post
Here's my issue with that: The house was built in the 50's. That 1.25 inch drain has been used for 60+ years.


So 60 years of 1 1/4 cast iron to corrode and grow smaller. You may functionally be well under 1" now.

No time like the present to rip out some cast iron and convert to PVC.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:11 PM   #12
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


All I can tell you is the code. I can't see it from my house.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:52 AM   #13
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


as your drawing stands its no good vent on the stand pipe above the trap is useless the double trapping is a large problem and the AAV in its location is also useless if you had a plumber out and he could see any of this he's not a plumber. other factors also to consider pipe size one.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:45 AM   #14
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Re: Washing machine won't vent


Newer washing machine dump water faster then old ones did. 1.5" used to be ok, but not anymore. Old cast iron pipe grows rust scales which are like teeth and trap all the lint that gets dumped by the washing machine. I'll bet your pipes are packed with lint.
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