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Old 12-10-2015, 04:33 AM   #31
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Venting a sealed attic. Means you have to replace that air. Which will come into the other parts of the house and either raise or lower the humidity in the house.

You only condition a sealed attic. A supply and a return, by conditioning it, you remove any pollutants before they accumulate in the sealed attic.
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Old 12-14-2015, 12:27 PM   #32
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In case you missed it, I am replacing the air. It comes from the whole house ventilation/dehumidifier that brings in fresh air, dehumidifies it, and distributes it throughout the house and attic via the supply plenum of the AC air handler. There will be a small duct opening in the air handler into the attic to distribute this dehumidified, fresh air into the attic, even when the AC is not on. There won't be an AC return from the attic, only the dampered/fan/duct that pulls air to the outside. The idea is to push air through the attic and out, so the toxics can go out, not recirculate back into the house or attic. I have two sealed gas fireplaces and a gas range that have ducts going through the attic, easy for them to leak, even if it's a little bit. I would not want to recirculate that air into the house.
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:00 PM   #33
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That air is suppose to be circulated through the house. A spray foam attic is NOT suppose to be vented to the outside. It should have a supply, and a return.

Your way, your going to force air out of the attic every time the A/C runs. Making the dehumidifier and A/C run longer. Defeating some of the benefits a sealed attic has.


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I have two sealed gas fireplaces and a gas range that have ducts going through the attic, easy for them to leak, even if it's a little bit. I would not want to recirculate that air into the house.
I hope you don't have a gas furnace. Its easy for a gas furnace to leak gas into teh duct work, or its exhaust to be pulled into the duct work and circulated into teh house.

Your being over paranoid.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:21 AM   #34
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Eliminating gas line from sealed attic


Suzanne, thanks for explaining the solution you came up with. The solution I came up with was just to remove the gas lines from the attic. I just don't think it is wise to have a gas manifold with various gas lines in a sealed attic and venting a sealed attic appears to raise a number of issues. It just so happened that 5 of the 6 gas devices in our home are on the same wall as the gas meter. The gas company determined that it was surprisingly straightforward to provide service to all 6 devices from the outside, eliminating the need for gas lines in the attic.

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Originally Posted by Suzanne99 View Post
Here is the solution I came up with for my ICF, SPF sealed attic, tight house in humid Florida for the gas/toxic accumulation, air quality, humidity, and air pressure problems (you must address air quality, toxic pollution accumulation, air pressure, humidity, and temperature all together as a system) :
1) Install a fan/damper/vent in the peak of the attic to exhaust attic air periodically or continuously to the outside. Natural gas and humid steam rise and accumulate up thetre. This is not expensive, even a bath fan/damper in the wall with dampered vent to the outside would work.
2) Install a 6" duct in the AC supply plenum (in the attic) to open into the attic for conditioned air circulation and to provide make up air equal to the air being exhausted so there will be no negative pressure in the attic or house below. An SPF attic is close to the same temp as the house, so this should not load down the AC AFTER #3 below.
3) Install a Honeywell DR120 ventilating dehumidifier (so the fresh air intake is dehumidified), then fed into the AC supply plenum for distribution to the house and attic. Set it so it runs continuously, even when the AC is NOT running - this is VERY important. We have many, many days when the AC or heat are not running, and just the air handler fan alone does not dehumidify, it only moves air, which is only a minor help.
4) Install plug-in sensors for natural gas/smoke in the light socket/receptacles across the high parts of the attic (use the CO/smoke at the low levels), and plug in 'listeners' in the receptacles in the house below so we will be sure to hear the siren in the attic if it goes off (which are quite loud anyway). If you have any fireplaces, even the sealed ones like I have, the duct pipes go through the attic and these are more prone to leaks than the gas pipes, so gas codes will likely require venting. This will cover it.
5) I will also install a separate vent/fan/damper in a central, lower area of the house below that will exhaust the lower level pollution (CO, CO2, propane, particulates, etc. that sink) to the outside. The stack effect can keep this pollution from dissipating so circulation at the bottom is a good idea. Again, a bath fan in the wall and damper at an outside vent works, but the units actually made for this are cheaper and quieter (check sound ratings).
6) I'm also installing a new AC unit that is multi-stage with air handler that is variable speed so it runs slowly and more often, which will help remove more humidity. Do not get the fresh air intake option for it though, the humid air coming into the AC can cause mold in the AC and duct work! The Honeywell unit is like a small AC, it has coils so it dehumidifies the air going into the AC plenum. I'm also installing returns in every room.
7) Installing a separate vent/fan/damper to provide make-up air for the gas range hood since it is 52,000 BTU so the hood has to be min. 520 cfm. The fan exhaust also goes through the attic so there is another potential source of pollution up there.
8) Installing an RH and barostat in addition to a thermostat so I can monitor the house conditions (even from a Iphone). Set a good range of sensitivity, and you can wire them to your exhaust systems to come on as programmed.
9) Make sure you add up all the cfms that your house will exhaust (bath fans, range hood, etc.) to ensure you provide close to equal make-up air to keep the pressure slightly positive. Put timers on the bath fans so they won't suck all the air out of your house if left on.
10)DO NOT install pass-thru vents in your house ceiling to the attic, this will force you to get an ignition barrier sprayed onto your SPF at the roof deck. As long as there is no direct attic-house communication (which is against code right now), the ceiling drywall is your ignition barrier.
11) Make sure you can control your vent dampers to the outside so you can shut them off if smoke, lawn sprays, etc. are in the area.
12) Learn to minimize use of scented candles, chemicals and sprays in the house because the fumes will stick around a long time.
I can give you more details if I have't scared you off yet. As you have also found, there are NO 'systems engineers' for houses. It's super annoying to constantly be told to consult your 'professional.' There is NO SUCH THING (related to this) readily available to us lay folks. I've gleaned bits and pieces of data from lots of good people, but no one person is an expert in this whole thing. The good ones are in the same boat I am, looking for solutions. If anyone has another data point for me, or if I've misunderstood something, by all means please feed me good data to use!
BTW - you might want to check the SPF, it may not have been installed correctly, which can cause you huge problems. I'd check the brand too.
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Old 10-02-2016, 06:14 AM   #35
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Re: Very slow gas leak is okay


On this slight gas leak, I'm looking for a solution for a 130 feet of buried 3/4 hard yellow coated gas line from my meter to outdoor kitchen BBQ. Is there a liquid sealer I can pour into the line and blow it all the way through with a compressor ? Trying not break stamped concrete up that covers the line. Any suggestions are welcome. And thanks for having me.
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Old 10-02-2016, 06:30 AM   #36
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Re: Very slow gas leak is okay


Nope, no sealer.
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Old 10-02-2016, 10:04 AM   #37
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Re: Very slow gas leak is okay


Nope. Gotta replace it.

Cheers!
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Old 10-02-2016, 11:46 AM   #38
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Re: Very slow gas leak is okay


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixsackpaul View Post
On this slight gas leak, I'm looking for a solution for a 130 feet of buried 3/4 hard yellow coated gas line from my meter to outdoor kitchen BBQ. Is there a liquid sealer I can pour into the line and blow it all the way through with a compressor ? Trying not break stamped concrete up that covers the line. Any suggestions are welcome. And thanks for having me.

The idiot that ran that pipe should have ran it through a 1.5 inch plastic pipe to comply with fuel gas code.
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