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Old 05-18-2015, 12:03 PM   #1
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Toilet flange question


Hi all,

I am remodeling my bathroom and I removed the linoleum (and particle board under) to replace it with tile. Since the new floor's height will be different, I had to cut the old toilet flange and I plan to put a new one at the right height.

My existing subfloor is 1'' thick plywood in good condition.

Here is a photo to the exposed 4'' ABS toilet pipe:



As you can see from the picture, the existing plywood was cut square (not following the shape of the 4'' ABS pipe) and the hole is a bit too large (you can see a joist in the bottom part of the hole).

I plan to install this flange:


The problem I have is that the plywood hole is too large to screw the flange into. I was thinking of building a donut shaped wooden insert matching the exact height of the finished floor (about 3/4 in: 1/8in thinset + 1/4in cement board + 1/8in thinset - 1/4 in tile).

The inside diameter of the donut would be the ABS pipe outside diameter (4in), the outside diameter would have to be larger than the square polywood hole but not too large to not be visible when the toilet is installed on top of it.

What do you think of this plan? Any better idea? (I definitely do not want to change the plywood subfloor)

Thank you for your help,
Regards,
John
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:45 PM   #2
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Bad idea.
I would cut out a section of the subfloor and replace with a well fitting clearance hole. Block your edges between two joists.


Now is the time to do it right, not after you thinset, backerboard, thinset, tile, set toilet and then have a problem. (imo)
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
Bad idea.
I would cut out a section of the subfloor and replace with a well fitting clearance hole. Block your edges between two joists.


Now is the time to do it right, not after you thinset, backerboard, thinset, tile, set toilet and then have a problem. (imo)
Hi Yodaman,
Do you mean something like that?



I am not sure how to do the blocking though. I can reuse the existing one at the bottom, but for the other one, the ABS pipe is in the way (I am not sure how recessed it is compared to the plywood subfloor.
If the space between the horizontal pipe is too small to add a 2x6 or even 2x4 joist as you suggest Can't I use a 2x4 laid flat on the top side just screwed to the existing plywood to provide the necessary support?

Thank you for your help,
John
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:48 PM   #4
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Cut it out to center of 2 joist and replace with new board with a proper sized hole. A hole saw is your friend here.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Cut it out to center of 2 joist and replace with new board with a proper sized hole. A hole saw is your friend here.
I can't as the next joist is after the wall of the bathroom.

Here is a photo of under the subfloor in case it helps:
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:09 PM   #6
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To the left of the pipe is the seam of the current sub floor, you can use that (you might have to trim 1/8 off to get centered)... Then go right of the pipe to the center of the next joist...

E.g take your black square and move it to the right...

I can't see the full beam pocket in the crawl space but given standard joist spacing this should be OK
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrupul0us View Post
To the left of the pipe is the seam of the current sub floor, you can use that (you might have to trim 1/8 off to get centered)... Then go right of the pipe to the center of the next joist...

E.g take your black square and move it to the right...

I can't see the full beam pocket in the crawl space but given standard joist spacing this should be OK
To give you a bit more information, joists are 4x6s 4 feet appart in my house
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:47 PM   #8
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if you are saying that your 3/4 sub floor is resting on joists that are 4' apart, tile is not going to work for you, or do you mean the joists are 16 or 24" apart and there is blocking every 4 feet.

regarding the subfloor patch, all 4 sides must be attached to something structurally sound. The center of 2 joist for one direction and normally blocking in the opposite direction. If you must lay a 2 x down flat to clear the drain pipe, use something big like 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 (not a 2 x 4)

The floor tiling experts on this forum will probably have some recommendations on subfloor requirements.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
if you are saying that your 3/4 sub floor is resting on joists that are 4' apart, tile is not going to work for you, or do you mean the joists are 16 or 24" apart and there is blocking every 4 feet.

regarding the subfloor patch, all 4 sides must be attached to something structurally sound. The center of 2 joist for one direction and normally blocking in the opposite direction. If you must lay a 2 x down flat to clear the drain pipe, use something big like 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 (not a 2 x 4)

The floor tiling experts on this forum will probably have some recommendations on subfloor requirements.
Sub floor is 1in1/8 thick, not 3/4, joists are 4ft appart (not the blocking).
I already remodeled my kitchen one year ago on the same subfloor and cement boards, everything is still great (no cracks on the tile or grout)
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Old 05-18-2015, 04:19 PM   #10
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Then may i suggest stick a 2 by 4 flat to the left. cut as mentioned prior.

Yes secure the 2 by 4 at the ends.

Where is this house at? I see nothing venting it. 4 foot joist spacing?

Last edited by Ghostmaker; 05-18-2015 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:53 PM   #11
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block it around


I use 4x4 blocks around my toilet flange ( and 1 had 1 more added in to fully surround the toilet flange ) then cut my plywood to fit around the stub, set my hardibacker, set the kerdi over that, then set my toilet flange on top of it. I however, have 2x8 16" inches on center ( and increased it to 10" with 2x10s ). I have never seen 4x6 joists 4 foot on center, which explain the beefy plywood subfloor.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:39 PM   #12
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fit for a king
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intelpcguy View Post
I use 4x4 blocks around my toilet flange ( and 1 had 1 more added in to fully surround the toilet flange ) then cut my plywood to fit around the stub, set my hardibacker, set the kerdi over that, then set my toilet flange on top of it. I however, have 2x8 16" inches on center ( and increased it to 10" with 2x10s ). I have never seen 4x6 joists 4 foot on center, which explain the beefy plywood subfloor.
That's a bit too extreme for me
I don't need to support the weight of a tank
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:43 AM   #14
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Cut the rectangle out as you've drawn. Cut blocking from 3/4" or 1" plywood that will extend 6-8 inches beyond the rectangle you cut on 3 sides to be screwed and glued from underneath.

This blocking plywood will have a U cut out to straddle the ABS and bump the joist. Drive 1-1/2" screws through this blocking on an angle ( Kreg if you like ) ( or just angle ) to the joist if you deem necessary. These will be driven first to suck the blocking to the joist. The screws will need a pilot hole through the first member the outside diameter of the screws. For convenience, those screw holes as well as all others can be bored in the blocking before you enter the crawl.

After this blocking is installed cut a patch to fit the opening from above with the round hole of appropriate size. Drop it in with some Elmer's and then screw it to the blocking and for added strength if you like install Kreg screws through the 1-1/8" sub floor into the patch piece edges.
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Old 05-19-2015, 09:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorSitizen View Post
Cut the rectangle out as you've drawn. Cut blocking from 3/4" or 1" plywood that will extend 6-8 inches beyond the rectangle you cut on 3 sides to be screwed and glued from underneath.

This blocking plywood will have a U cut out to straddle the ABS and bump the joist. Drive 1-1/2" screws through this blocking on an angle ( Kreg if you like ) ( or just angle ) to the joist if you deem necessary. These will be driven first to suck the blocking to the joist. The screws will need a pilot hole through the first member the outside diameter of the screws. For convenience, those screw holes as well as all others can be bored in the blocking before you enter the crawl.

After this blocking is installed cut a patch to fit the opening from above with the round hole of appropriate size. Drop it in with some Elmer's and then screw it to the blocking and for added strength if you like install Kreg screws through the 1-1/8" sub floor into the patch piece edges.
Looks like a great plan to me, thank you
John
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