There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve? - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By lenaitch
  • 3 Post By hkstroud
  • 1 Post By hkstroud
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 11-17-2017, 04:48 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 145
Rewards Points: 235
Default

There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


tub started feeling squishy last week.. now today its full on waterworks, feel like I'm on a waterbed..

Called several plumbers for help, and they tell me they can help with the water but are not licensed to install a new tub and liner..

Called the remodelers but they all quoted me $10,000 for "fixing" the tub, installing a fan vent, and new flooring... $10K for jus those 3 things....

FYI: 3 have quoted me full bath remodel on a 800sq ft bathroom is $16-18K.

I'm at a total loss on what to do here..

1. How Did this happen?

2. How do I get the water out of there?

3. Step by step directions on installing a new tub drain please? Youtube is all over the place on this. i.e. rubber v/s putty


Bathroom is 800sq ft and on 2nd floor in a colonial house. Zip: 53186
Attached Thumbnails
There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?-img_20171117_072411.jpg   There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?-img_20171117_072459.jpg   There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?-img_20171117_072419.jpg  
Sean Price is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-17-2017, 04:53 PM   #2
retired framer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 35,695
Rewards Points: 15,048
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


Are you on a wood floor or slab. If you have access to the back or one of the side walls
you can gain limited access at the bottom of those walls. and maybe identify the problem from there.
Nealtw is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-17-2017, 07:59 PM   #3
Usually Confused
 
lenaitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,225
Rewards Points: 2,010
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


"Squishy" does sound like the floor under the tub is compromised and maybe even standing water between the tub and the floor. Can you hear water moving about if you shift weight along the bottom of the tub? Does it ooze out form any seams? Any sign of water damage on the ceiling of the room underneath, or along the floor right in front of the tub? You question leaps right to fixing the drain without knowing if that is the source of the water. It could from the walls or even the supply lines.

$16k doesn't sound completely out of line for a complete 'back to the studs' reno.
Nealtw likes this.
lenaitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-17-2017, 08:55 PM   #4
Super Moderator
 
Gymschu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Ohio (heart of Appalachia)
Posts: 6,758
Rewards Points: 556
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


I'm with lenaitch........best to find out the source of the water first. It could be just about anything. Drain leaking, cold or hot water supply leaking, pinhole leak in the copper behind the wall, heck, it could even be the kids splashing. I know when my son was young, he would splash so much water OUT of the tub that it ran underneath and then dripped like a thunderstorm into the basement. It doesn't take much of a gap around the tub/floor area for water to find its way to where it shouldn't be........
__________________
"In the heat of battle, my father wove a tapestry of obscenity........."
Gymschu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 05:05 AM   #5
Member
 
hkstroud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,355
Rewards Points: 6,692
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


A special license to install a tub? Has Wisconsin gone that weird? If so, what legitimate plumber would not have one?

Just sounds like a job they don't want.

First, tell Mommy to stop filling the tub so full before putting the kiddies in. If she fills it to the max and then puts the kids in, it causes water to flow out the overflow pipe. That is probably the source of the water. Almost 90% chances that is the source.

Looks like a fiberglass tub and surround. Inspect tub for any signs of a crack, which is highly unlikely, but check any way.

If you have access to the head of the tub from the other side of the wall, remove the panel and fill tub to overflow and watch for water around overflow.

To replace the overflow gasket, remove the cover plate. If you have access from other side of the wall replace gasket. If you don't have access, remove cover, push overflow pipe back away from tub with screwdriver, and replace gasket from tub side through hole.

Next most likely place for a leak is the drain. Remove drain flange. There is a tool for that. Clean around drain opening in the tub and under side of drain flange. Run a bead of plumbers putty under the drain flange and reinstall.

To check for leaks in supply piping. Remove the tub spout. If it is the slip on type, the type where you loosen a set screw on the under side and pull the spout off, get a 1/2" Sharkbite pipe cap. Remove the spout and put Sharkbite pipe cap on the end of spout stub out. Get the removal tool so you can remove the Sharkbite cap when you are through. If the spout is the screw on type, get a 1/2 threaded PVC screw on pipe cap and put on the spout stub out.

Remove the shower head and put on a 1/2" threaded PVC pipe cap.
If you have the access panel, turn on the water and watch for leaks from there. If you don't have the access panel remove the valve handle and the escutcheon cover plate. With flashlight watch for leaks through valve opening in the wall. With the spout and shower arm blocked, the water will be at it's maximum pressure so any leak should be readily apparent.

When the tub was set, it should have been and probably was, set in a bed of mortar to prevent flexing. The squishing you hear is the water trapped between the mortar and the tub. If there was no mortar used the water would have soaked though wooden sub floor and you should see damage to the ceiling below.

Your plumber friends don't want to go through the process of determining where the leak is occurring. Finding the leak is a process of elimination. If the plumber comes in and replaces your overflow gasket and charges you for an hour's labor and that is not the source, you will expect him to come back and find the leak at no additional cost. That is why he doesn't want the job. Of course it may be because he doesn't want to go through the thinking process.

If you determine where the leak is occurring and then call him to repair, he will take that job.

The water trapped will eventually evaporate but will take some time.
Of course you can always open up the ceiling below to look for damage.
Gymschu, Dave Sal and lenaitch like this.
__________________
Harold,
The Left Handed Widget Maker

Last edited by hkstroud; 11-18-2017 at 05:24 AM.
hkstroud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 05:36 AM   #6
Member
 
hkstroud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,355
Rewards Points: 6,692
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


A likely place for a leak in the supply piping is where the shower arm screws into the drop ell.
__________________
Harold,
The Left Handed Widget Maker
hkstroud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 11:57 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,690
Rewards Points: 1,926
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


I would suggest you look for a state licensed plumbing professional. They should be able to determine where and what is causing your leak.

Did you pay for a relign of a tub? If so it failed call them.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 02:40 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 145
Rewards Points: 235
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


thank you all for your time and responses..

not a plumber much less a handyman but it seems like perhaps there is an actual tub this other tub that you see in the pictures was layed on top of the original tub? Is that likely or possible?

The water under the tub is growing.. at first we could mover around with our weight and you felt it shift. Now bottom of the tub(pictured) has a noticeable rise to it, almost like a hump as if is swelling.

Reason I think the drain is the culprit is because I was showing the hump to a friend that "knows" plumbing and when I pressed down on the hump/water I actually saw some water come out from the drain itself, on the edge that touches the tub floor itself and not where it drains down. Hope that makes sense.

Today I feel like I can see a noticeable gap between that part, like a 1/2mm thick gap. I then noticed a string like substance and pulled on it and it stretched and came out widing that gap by a fraction of mm even more.. After reading HKStrouds very well written and in depth reply I know now that stuff was putty or maybe even plumbers tape?

However as suggested I did take a look elsewhere and not seeing any other indication of a leak, everything else is Dry. Took apart that part behind the faucet and not seeing any indications of moisture there.


Way I see it, on the short term at least I have a few options...

#1 Go to Home Depot and buy this Tub Drain Extractor and pull the drain, add more putty and slap back on.

^^ That should prevent more water from getting in there right?

However does not resolve how to get the water out......

which leads me to my crazy idea, please talk me out of it!!

#2 Carefull Drill a small hole into the tub(as shown in me pics above) probably more towards the back of tub but as close as possible to the hump/rise of water. Then use a wet/dry vac to suck out the water.. Then plug the small hole with Plumbers putty and then buy a 6 pack of Corona and call it a weekend!


#2 is crazy and I admit even sounds stupid writing it out, however I am at a loss as what else to do.

Had another 2 guys come in and not one of them created any sense of urgency in resolving that issue.. This leads me to believe that my theory is correct and why no one is rushing to address that issue for us and instead focus on a complete remodel.

anyways, leaving for HomeDepot now but will check back here before doing anything.


any and all advise and input is welcome and much appreciated.


Sean P
Sean Price is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 04:06 PM   #9
Member
 
hkstroud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,355
Rewards Points: 6,692
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


Quote:
perhaps there is an actual tub this other tub that you see in the pictures was layed on top of the original tub? Is that likely or possible?
Yes.

OK, so you have had a tub insert installed. What you are experiencing is the problem of tub inserts. Have a friend that had one installed. Against my advice. Water going down the drain will get between the tub and the liner. I periodically go over work as much water out as possible. Probably been a year of so since I have had to go over. Probably got a pretty good seal the last time I did it.

Remove the drain flange. Scrape away as much of the caulking between the tub liner and the tub it self as possible. Then starting at the foot of the tub walk the water toward the drain. Letting it come out and into the drain. Keep doing this until you get all the water out you can. Probably help to put some small shims between the liner and the tub it self. Stop by the tile section of Home Depot and get some of the plastic spacers that the tile setters uses to space ceramic tile. Stick two or three around the drain between the plastic liner and the tub itself. They should make it easier for the water between the tub and the liner to flow out.
After you have worked all the water out, or as much as you can get out, pry up the liner as much as possible, dry the area and squirt as much caulking between the tub and the liner as possible.
Reinstall the drain flange. Start screwing it in and put a good bead of caulking under the flange and then finish tightening.

This is a home owner or handyman task, not a plumbers job. Takes to long to "walk" the water out. Might help to have two people "walk" the water out. More feet to push down at the same time.

So remove the drain flange, remove all the caulking you can, insert the little wedges and begin "walking" the water toward the drain. If possible, after you have "walked" as much as possible let the tub sit for a day (with the little wedges in place) to let any water out that will flow toward the drain.

Don't be drilling any holes. Only make the situation worse.

Check the caulking around the walls. The tub itself has a lip that turns up behind the walls. The tub liner does not. Poor caulking will let water get between the liner and the tub itself. Probably best to scrap away all the existing caulking and re caulk.

No structural damage here, just an annoyance.
ZTMAN likes this.
__________________
Harold,
The Left Handed Widget Maker

Last edited by hkstroud; 11-18-2017 at 04:36 PM.
hkstroud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 145
Rewards Points: 235
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
Yes.

OK, so you have had a tub insert installed. What you are experiencing is the problem of tub inserts. Have a friend that had one installed. Against my advice. Water going down the drain will get between the tub and the liner. I periodically go over work as much water out as possible. Probably been a year of so since I have had to go over. Probably got a pretty good seal the last time I did it.

Remove the drain flange. Scrape away as much of the caulking between the tub liner and the tub it self as possible. Then starting at the foot of the tub walk the water toward the drain. Letting it come out and into the drain. Keep doing this until you get all the water out you can. Probably help to put some small shims between the liner and the tub it self. Stop by the tile section of Home Depot and get some of the plastic spacers that the tile setters uses to space ceramic tile. Stick two or three around the drain between the plastic liner and the tub itself. They should make it easier for the water between the tub and the liner to flow out.
After you have worked all the water out, or as much as you can get out, pry up the liner as much as possible, dry the area and squirt as much caulking between the tub and the liner as possible.
Reinstall the drain flange. Start screwing it in and put a good bead of caulking under the flange and then finish tightening.

This is a home owner or handyman task, not a plumbers job. Takes to long to "walk" the water out. Might help to have two people "walk" the water out. More feet to push down at the same time.

So remove the drain flange, remove all the caulking you can, insert the little wedges and begin "walking" the water toward the drain. If possible, after you have "walked" as much as possible let the tub sit for a day (with the little wedges in place) to let any water out that will flow toward the drain.

Don't be drilling any holes. Only make the situation worse.

Check the caulking around the walls. The tub itself has a lip that turns up behind the walls. The tub liner does not. Poor caulking will let water get between the liner and the tub itself. Probably best to scrap away all the existing caulking and re caulk.

No structural damage here, just an annoyance.
bwa haha!!!

UNBELIEVABLE, its like you have a camera installed in my house or I'm one of those, what are they called, TV camera shows where everyone is watching my life in the house..

WITHOUT seeing your well written guide(which would have come in handy last week) I did exactly THAT, STEP BY STEP, minus the shims part(good idea tho) and letting it "dry out" and "walked" the water out...

Let me tell you, it came GUSHING OUT like a geiser, aka Yosemite, at 1st it was going at least a foot high.. Then slower and lower until it was just a trickle..

I'ma weekend daddy, so asked the 6yr, and 5yr old to climb in with me and then I picked up the 13 month old and as family actvity we "walked" the water out some more. Kiddos had a blast and thought it was awesome!!

Anyways I feel like I got 99% of the water out an then I threw everything back together after ringing the tub drain with a ring of plumbers putty and tightening back up.


I think your right, no structural damage, but anything I should keep an eye out for these next few weeks?

Also a couple of things..

"Walked" out water came out clear as day, aka super clean, which makes feel better for some odd reason.. thats a good thing right?

After removing the tub drain, there was a white substance ring around/above where the tub drain screws in.. If I had to guess i was caulk.. That standard or should they have used plumbers putty instead? aka that why it leaked?

What about the 1% water I could not "walk" out, any concerns there?

How to prevent this from happening again?

i.e. if we keep our current bath set up?

if we remodel, what type of tub should I ask fer instead?

Any other input and advise?


thank you in advance..


Sean P


p.s. My mind can't stop wondering what the heck is under this liner that I thought was our actual tub..
Sean Price is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 07:23 PM   #11
Member
 
hkstroud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,355
Rewards Points: 6,692
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


Quote:
what the heck is under this liner that I thought was our actual tub..
The old tub.

All most all tubs are the same length, (60" long) and most are the same width. There is only so many shapes. Installer selects shape close to the tub you have and sits the insert down over your existing tub. The fiberglass is about 1/8" thick. Probably has to cut the flange along the back wall and the ends.

Quote:
How to prevent this from happening again?
You should probably check the caulking around the walls. Thinking about the last time I did my friends, I scraped out the existing caulking and re-caulked. While I said a year, its probably been longer than that. That is most likely how most of the water got in.

The purpose of installing a insert liner is to get a new tub with out tearing out the old.

Naturally if you remodel you will get an new tub and the problem won't exist.

Quote:
If I had to guess i was caulk.. That standard or should they have used plumbers putty instead?
No, caulk was the proper thing to use.

Quote:
What about the 1% water I could not "walk" out, any concerns there?
No.

Plumber makes more money remodeling than he does repairing.
__________________
Harold,
The Left Handed Widget Maker

Last edited by hkstroud; 11-18-2017 at 07:40 PM.
hkstroud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 02:59 PM   #12
Member
 
Dave Sal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,631
Rewards Points: 642
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


If I had this problem I'd probably consider ripping out the tub liner and getting the original tub refinished. Maybe also tear down the tub surround and install new insulation, vapor barrier, cement board, and then new tiles. You could do that yourself for less than $1k. By the way, excellent post by hkstroud.
Dave Sal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 03:26 PM   #13
retired framer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 35,695
Rewards Points: 15,048
Default

Re: There Is Water Under My Tub, How Do I Resolve?


I agree, time for a rip out and replace. Someone cheated the last time and now you have to deal with it.
Nealtw is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Heater Issues clark77494 Plumbing 12 10-09-2017 04:32 PM
Can't drain electric water heater dubina Plumbing 35 08-02-2017 08:07 PM
Help with hot water katiejosh811 Plumbing 13 12-28-2016 05:52 AM
Water heater solutions to get hot water in timely manner daluu Plumbing 22 05-07-2012 08:44 PM
How Do I Properly Shock Chlorinate a Water Softner classicflytyer Plumbing 5 07-14-2009 12:15 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts