Tankless Install For 3BR/3.5BA With Four In Family - $4k? - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 12-15-2014, 07:03 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vestavia Hills, Al
Posts: 239
Rewards Points: 434
Default

Tankless install for 3BR/3.5BA with Four in family - $4k?


Just had an estimate to install a new high efficiency tankless water heater. The estimate came back at:
Install noritz tankless water heater in basement. Run water and gas lines to water heater. 9 year parts and labor warranty. $4,313 which includes one year service agreement.
If the water heater itself accounts for $1500, the installation cost adds up to $2813

Is this reasonable cost? Its being installed in an accessible area of an unfinished basement, not a crawl space. There is ready access to tap a gas line right near the heater as well as water lines and electrical. I'm trying to determine if the installation expense is reasonable and justified and if I can expect similar cost estimates from other plumbing companies - which I will be doing.

Do they make traditional water heaters with 90-95+ efficiency ratings? Ones that can be vented to an exterior wall?
vestaviascott is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-15-2014, 07:16 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 5,918
Rewards Points: 582
Default


while asking prices on this site well lets leave that alone...to many things to consider....but I will say get another estimate from another plumber...it does seem alittle high based on your estimate of where the tie ins are but we can't see that unless you post a picture..
ben's plumbing is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-15-2014, 08:12 AM   #3
Plumber
 
TheEplumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 11,433
Rewards Points: 248
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by vestaviascott View Post
Just had an estimate to install a new high efficiency tankless water heater. The estimate came back at:
Install noritz tankless water heater in basement. Run water and gas lines to water heater. 9 year parts and labor warranty. $4,313 which includes one year service agreement.
If the water heater itself accounts for $1500, the installation cost adds up to $2813

Is this reasonable cost? Its being installed in an accessible area of an unfinished basement, not a crawl space. There is ready access to tap a gas line right near the heater as well as water lines and electrical. I'm trying to determine if the installation expense is reasonable and justified and if I can expect similar cost estimates from other plumbing companies - which I will be doing.

Do they make traditional water heaters with 90-95+ efficiency ratings? Ones that can be vented to an exterior wall?
A power vent heater might be an option. Ask the rest of the bidders.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
TheEplumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-15-2014, 08:44 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 421
Rewards Points: 777
Default


I would go power vent over tankless everyday of the week. I have seen way to many issues with tankless and the savings they talk about are just not there. The only time i would agree with a tankless if you have a large tub that needs to be filled.

I talked my cousin into a 50 gallon power vent on a 4300 sq. ft. house with 2 adults and 3 children. He has never had a issue. My parents have a Noritz and have gone days without hot water waiting on warranty parts to come in to fix the many problems that have come up with the unit.

The cost on the power vent should be a fair amount less. You also have to have the tankless flushed every year or the warranty is void.
ct18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 09:08 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 3,471
Rewards Points: 3,130
Default


Not going to get into the debate over the efficacy of tankless heaters. I have one, and love it. Your estimate seems quite high, though there are many variables not mentioned. I installed ours myself when we built the house five years ago. The only thing I didn't do was run the gas line, which my supplier did for $100. Plumbed the house myself so there was no additional charge for that. Mounted the unit on an outside wall so didn't need any vent pipe other than what came with it. Total cost was about $1600, of which over $100 was for a service valve kit (which I've not yet used). Need to flush the thing one of these days, I guess.
md2lgyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 09:46 AM   #6
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 14,710
Rewards Points: 18,410
Blog Entries: 2
Default


I considered tankless as an option....did a lot of research.

From what I concluded....tankless only makes economical sense if space is a real issue and/or distance from a tank heater to the end devices....or, water usage is of short duration....as in shower in the morning...then no activity all day and then a short duration at night....and it's electric.

Gas? You will never recover the cost.

But, if you have a good size family and your going to be using water all day and evening....a large tank heater is a better option.

Given the cost of a tankless, you will never recover the cost over any energy savings.

A high efficiency gas tank heater is going to last 15+ years.

Mine is 50 gal....I've had it 8 years already....I've never ran it out of hot water....and we have 2 adults and 3 kids.
__________________
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there.

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 10:34 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vestavia Hills, Al
Posts: 239
Rewards Points: 434
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
A high efficiency gas tank heater is going to last 15+ years.

Mine is 50 gal....I've had it 8 years already....I've never ran it out of hot water....and we have 2 adults and 3 kids.
Thanks for your feedback. Can you define "high efficiency"? Or perhaps let me know what model water heater you have and its efficiency rating.
vestaviascott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 10:37 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vestavia Hills, Al
Posts: 239
Rewards Points: 434
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
A power vent heater might be an option. Ask the rest of the bidders.
Thanks! I'd never even heard of that so I'm glad I posted the question today. You could have just saved me several thousands of dollars if the installation costs for power vent are considerably less than for tankless.

The power vent units are about 50-75% more expensive than the standard vent units. The cheapest power vent unit I've found is a 29gal 60k btu unit at HD for $700 (Rheem EcoSense XR90 - Link). They also have a 50 gal unit for $997 (Rheem "Performance" 50 - Link)

I was under impression that no alternative existed other than tankless due to the need to vent to the wall. What size PVC is required? Can it be smaller than 3" diameter?

I have a run of appx 50 feet from current tank location to the outside wall.

Last edited by vestaviascott; 12-15-2014 at 10:42 AM.
vestaviascott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 10:39 AM   #9
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 14,710
Rewards Points: 18,410
Blog Entries: 2
Default


It's a Sears 50 Gal.....12 year warranty ....but I'm in Israel on business right now so I can't go out and look at it.

Maybe this will help...in the summer time my average gas bill is around $17....wife is a stay at home mom....we all take lots of showers....and the laundry is an every day task.
__________________
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there.

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 10:52 AM   #10
Member
 
Doc Sheldon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 200
Rewards Points: 400
Default


I'd never heard of power vent units, either. A quick online search raises more questions than answers. We have a 30 gallon gas heater (conventional tank model) which I moved outside into an enclosure I dog-housed onto an external wall. The plan was to convert to a tankless before long. Since combustion air isn't an issue for me, I don't know if a power vent heater really offers any advantage or not. From what I find in my search, it looks as though the PV units deliver higher BTUs. But is the cost/benefit worthwhile? I'd love to hear some opinions from the folks that have experience.
Doc Sheldon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 04:55 PM   #11
Special User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Idaho, US
Posts: 917
Rewards Points: 1,230
Default


Those tankless can require a lot of gas -- the gas pipes already in the area may be too small to meet flow requirements. May want to check on that in case you have to factor in a pipe upgrade as well (the pipe will have to supply both the tankless AND the existing heater -- it all adds up).
__________________
The above post is for entertainment purposes only. Its contents may, and probably will, lead to legal liability and damage or loss of property, life, or limb. Use at your own risk.
tylernt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 09:28 PM   #12
Plumber & Gasfitter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 128
Rewards Points: 77
Default


Price sounds comparable to what we charge to install a similar unit. Price includes removing existing tank, changing gas line to 3/4" inch, venting out an exterior wall, permit, warranty, pick up and supply of heater, condensate to sewer, water piping etc..

Always somebody cheaper out there, just make sure the installer has experience with the unit. Ask what the gallons per minute are for the unit at your area's incoming water temperature, the btu input requirements for the appliance, the capacity of your current gas piping and the manufacturer recommended maintenance. The installer should be able to give you accurate information with a solid degree of confidence. If his response is "a lot", "a bunch", "enough" and "it's in the manual", you might want to move on to another contractor.

We install a lot of tankless units and get mostly positive feedback. People's biggest complaint is the extra 9-12 seconds of wait time when cracking open a tap.

I'm a big fan of the tankless units but I've seen far too many botched installations where the unit is being blamed for the installers incompetence and lack of product knowledge.
joeplumber85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 09:57 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vestavia Hills, Al
Posts: 239
Rewards Points: 434
Default


Update: We have 1" gas pipe in the house. No need to upgrade that.

I had a plumber by today and I'm expecting an estimate of cost tomorrow. He indicated he would be recommending a "commercial" tankless unit with a 12 year warranty. Unit and vent costs $1300 plus labor. Tank to be mounted inside basement on exterior wall right next to gas service pipe. He will need to run about 8 feet of gas line from an existing tap point on the gas line right along the wall. In addition, he'll need to run copper water line to connect to the hot water line where the tank currently sits (appx 60 feet). Also will have to run an electric wire about 40 feet from an existing junction box then cut hole and run PVC vent pipe to outside wall above heater.

Seems pretty straight forward they way he's described it.
vestaviascott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 10:02 PM   #14
Plumber & Gasfitter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 128
Rewards Points: 77
Default


1" gas pipe does not mean you have adequate gas capacity to legally run a 199k btu tankless water heater.
joeplumber85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2014, 10:16 PM   #15
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 14,710
Rewards Points: 18,410
Blog Entries: 2
Default


60'? Further from the existing unit?

Lets assume your hot water pipe is 3/4". For every foot of pipe, that is 5.3 cu In. A gallon of water is 231 cu in. So, about every 43' of pipe from the heater, that is a gallon of water that will have to be sent down the drain before you start to get hot water.

For the price of the unit you are getting....you could buy 3-4 gas tank heaters which would give you 50+ years of service.

You will NEVER realize any savings with a tankless....
__________________
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there.

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ddawg16 For This Useful Post:
tylernt (12-15-2014)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tankless HW Heater justinramani Plumbing 2 05-16-2013 09:55 PM
Tankless - Black Soot Problem BillGrayslake General DIY Discussions 0 04-13-2013 01:02 PM
Location for new Tankless water heater? bb_sam Plumbing 9 03-09-2010 09:09 AM
Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround DIY-Renovator Flooring 18 07-17-2008 10:42 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts