Surge Tank Or Press. Relief Valve Fail? - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 12-10-2015, 11:24 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Rewards Points: 49
Default

Surge tank or Press. Relief Valve fail?


Hi,
My Hot Water tank is 8 years old. The pipes upstairs whistle for 3 seconds after the upstairs sink is turned off (the whistle seems like it is from the pipes to the toliet in the same bathroom though). Possibly unrelated.

The whistling has been for 6 months. The water heater has been leaking now for about 2 weeks from the drain pipe from the pressure relief valve. It seems to happen after a hot shower.

The amount is about 2 cups of water and the water heater temperature has always been turned much lower than the recommended (or typical) home setting since we have younger children to prevent scalds.

The water tank has an expansion tank. I tap it and it does not seem hollow...but I am not sure exactly when to tap it...after a hot shower...several hours between hot water use (shower, dish washer, etc.).

How do I do more trouble shooting of the expansion tank and whether the pressure relief valve is going? I have never noticed any constant stream or drip from the relief valve...just notice the two cups fulls in the tubberware that I use to catch the water in. I check it several times a day and defintely seems to correspond to hot water use...but I have not actually waited watching while the shower upstairs was in use :-)

what more should I be doing ? Once I get an idea of what is going on....this will be a job for a plumber...not me!

Thanks!
kree is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-10-2015, 12:04 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,821
Rewards Points: 3,208
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by kree View Post
How do I do more trouble shooting of the expansion tank and whether the pressure relief valve is going?
On the bottom of the expansion is a schrader valve. Check the pressure of the exp. tank there with a tire pressure gauge.

Turn off incoming water to wh, open a faucet to release pressure, it should closely match the main incoming water pressure, usually around 50-60 psi or so. if nothing but water comes out of it when checking the pressure, its bad and needs to be replaced. If low, add the appropriate amount of air. Start there. Report back with results. Takes about 5 minutes. Then you can rule that out. thanks.
jmon is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jmon For This Useful Post:
kree (12-10-2015), throrope (12-13-2015)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-10-2015, 05:10 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,653
Rewards Points: 1,852
Default


If you get water out of it that tank is no good.

You will also need to replace the pressure relief valve on the hot water tank.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-13-2015, 09:23 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 8,829
Rewards Points: 3,264
Default


Wait for the water heater to finish its cycle and kick off. Draw about a half gallon of water from a faucet to remove any remaining influence of the water heater on the water system pressure.

Measure the water system pressure with main water valve turned on all faucets off. You can use either a gauge screwed onto an outside hose bibb or a tire gauge on the water heater expansion tank, or any other water pressure gauge you might already have installed such as for a well system.

With water still turned on, let all of the air out of the expansion tank (to see if water comes out). If water comes out then replace the expansion tank.

With the main water turned off and an upstairs faucet open, pressurize the expansion tank to the water system pressure you measured earlier.

Turn everything back on.
__________________
Stop some of your bank autopayments so you can set priorities for manual monthly payments out of your coronavirus stimulus check.

Last edited by AllanJ; 12-13-2015 at 09:31 AM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 10:00 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 8,829
Rewards Points: 3,264
Default


Due to exceeding the 30 minute limit to edit, this post with a few more scattered edits is reposted here in its entirety rather than sort out just the ;syrdy sentences that needed to be changed.

Wait for the water heater to finish its cycle and kick off. Draw about a half gallon of water from a faucet to remove any remaining influence of the water heater on the water system pressure.

Measure the water system pressure with main water valve turned on all faucets off. You can use either a gauge screwed onto an outside hose bibb or a tire gauge on the water heater expansion tank, or any other water pressure gauge you might already have installed such as for a well system.

With water still turned on, let all of the air out of the expansion tank (to see if water comes out). If water comes out then replace the expansion tank.

(You may choose to keep a non-bladder expansion tank which is not common nowadays, is somewhat larger than a typical modern expansion tank, should have its air valve up top, and which will always let out water, but you will need to repeat this procedure periodically, untimately at half the number of weeks it takes for the original problem (water heater relief valve spitting water) to resume.)

With the main water turned off and an upstairs faucet open, pressurize the expansion tank to the water system pressure you measured earlier. (For a non-bladder expansion tank the open faucet will spit air after letting out more water long before you reach system pressure at which time you are done adding air.)

Turn everything back on.
__________________
Stop some of your bank autopayments so you can set priorities for manual monthly payments out of your coronavirus stimulus check.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 03:17 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Rewards Points: 49
Default


Sorry for the delay....I finally got around to testing the expansion tank. Air pressure gauge releases....water. So bad expansion tank. I never realized that one should even test the tank every year or so. Live and learn.

So there is a cold water cutoff valve just upstream of the expansion tank, so how difficult of a job is this?

Also, if the Pres. relief valve just releases a few cups of water after a couple of hot showers....is that still ok?

Do I call a plumber and just have him "Fix"it, or do I order a new tank off of amazon and then just pay for labor? (CC bill will be huge enough with Christmas...sigh).

Thanks again!
kree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 03:39 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 36,811
Rewards Points: 18,764
Default


There should never be water coming out of the relief valve unless there's an issue.
Why would you order one on line? Any Lowe's Home Depot, plumbing supply will have one in stock.
Shut off the incoming water, open up a faucet to relieve the pressure, unscrew the old one install the new one using pipe Teflon dope, 10 min. fix.
Other things can cause this.
One is to high an incoming water pressure.
Simple and cheap to check, is it city or well water?
If it's city water a simplle cheap valve on an outside faucet can check the pressure.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Winters-I...M213/205962470
There's no need for the pressure to be much more then 50 PSI.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 03:49 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,821
Rewards Points: 3,208
Default


You May not need a new wh yet. Thats up to you.

Its a diy project for less than 50 bucks. You do all the labor.

As mentioned, turn off wh, turn off incoming water to wh, open a couple faucets, drain a couple gallons out of wh to get below temperature pressure relief valve.

Replace exp tank and tpr valve. Set psi on exp tank before installing. Should closely match your incoming water pressure about 50_55psi. Check first with gauge. Replace tpr valve.

After you have replaced tpr valve and exp tank, turn water back on and check for leaks. Once in starts coming out the faucets turn them off. Turn on
and fire up wh.

Check again for leaks. No water should be dripping from tpr valve.

If you dont feel comfortable doing this by all means call a pro. Just remember they usually get 150 dollars or so just to come out. Plus parts, labor, tax, ect.
jmon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 03:59 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Rewards Points: 49
Default


I missed the 30 minute as well to edit! :-)

Its 7.5x 9" not including the threaded connection...how crucial is it to match up the new one to the old one as far as capacity?

Amazon, HD, etc...didn't mean to muddy the waters. HD sometimes doesn't have stuff in stock by me.

There are no markings....it is just a plain white tank with a blue cap, with the air valve below.

Ok....dunce award...since we have a backflow valve for the sprinkler system (local code) there is a nice gauge on the system showing 52 psi...I should have mentioned this.

It is city water....quick replies! :-)
Thanks

Last edited by kree; 12-20-2015 at 04:08 PM.
kree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 04:07 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,821
Rewards Points: 3,208
Default


Yes check at any hose bib with gauge. Post results. Thanks.
jmon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 04:15 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 36,811
Rewards Points: 18,764
Default


No one here can see your tank or where your suggesting to test the pressure without a picture.
Any outside faucet should work as long as it's after the pressure reducing valve.
Not crtitcal on the tank size.
Never once seen a tank without some info on the outside of it.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 05:14 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Rewards Points: 49
Default


52psi on water pressure....it's just a plain white tank..."builder-special" I'm sure. Of course, the builder never mentioned about checking the pressure on the thing.

If size isn't critical, I'll just get something similar...
It seems fairly straight forward.


I do appreciate the information and help.

Thanks.
kree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 05:37 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,821
Rewards Points: 3,208
Default


You're welcome. Let us know how your project turns out.

Post some before and after pictures if you can. Thanks.
jmon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 06:38 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Rewards Points: 49
Default


Ha! After looking more carefully...it appears the builder's plumbing company screwed me again.

The hot water exhaust pipe is 2 inches from the expansion tank....limiting the room I have to work and limiting the size of tank....I basically need an exact size tank.

Nimrods.....why do people do work that sucks.....argh.

Sorry for the rant....now I will have to find a near exact fit tank or re-route the exhaust. wonderful.
Attached Thumbnails
Surge tank or Press. Relief Valve fail?-hot-water1.jpg  

Last edited by kree; 12-20-2015 at 06:56 PM.
kree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2015, 08:11 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,821
Rewards Points: 3,208
Default


It's usually a standard exp. tank for water heater. It should fit.

When you get to the big box store ask specially for a water heater exp. tank. Stay away from the boiler exp. tanks as they will not fit. They are way too big.
jmon is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
well pressure switch NJ Lady Plumbing 32 12-16-2013 03:48 PM
Relief valve leaking mreber Plumbing 21 10-01-2013 05:08 PM
Low hot water pressure crebive Plumbing 38 02-26-2013 12:26 AM
rumbling pipes and leaking pressure relief valve rogerwright Plumbing 21 04-14-2012 02:35 PM
Replacing a Pressure Relief Valve for a Boiler multiphrenic HVAC 18 11-30-2011 11:16 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts