Stem Valve Leak - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 03-04-2015, 09:48 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Yes, both the 76100 and the 96100 Waltec cartridges use 1/4R bibb washers, which is what you get in Master Plumber Part # 616. They are 0.555 inches in diameter. I don't know how many washers you get in Part # 616 tho. Phone Master Plumber and see if you can get them in a package of 6 instead of a package of 25 or so.

It will always be less expensive to buy the replacement parts and rebuild the old cartridges than buying new cartridges. However, replacing the cartridges will always be faster and easier. If you want to rebuild, DON'T put the new O-rings on the spindles since they're gradually stretch while in storage. Put the parts together, but only put the O-ring on a day or two before replacing the cartridges.

If you do rebuild those cartridges, use CLR to clean the parts and SILICONE grease as the lubricant on the stem threads. Rebuilt cartridges will work as well and last as long as new ones. That's because the metal used to make cartridges is bronze rather than brass. Bronze is made of copper and tin whereas brass is made of copper and zinc, and zinc is very much more prone to corrosion than tin. This is why it's the brass bibb screws on old faucets that corrode despite the rest of the cartridge being in good shape. When that happens, the brass bibb screws are said to have been "dezincified".

I would buy the 96100 cartridges because they use that 016 O-ring as a gasket instead of a fiber gasket. The fiber gaskets can stick to the valve body or cartridge and require careful removal. The 96100 compresses that smaller 016 O-ring for a less problematic seal between the cartridge and valve body.

A second equally good option is to rebuild your old 76100 cartridges and use a "teflon back-up ring" as a gasket. These work perfectly as valve gaskets since they're relatively soft, completely unaffected by water and will withstand temperatures of 300 deg. F. They are expensive, tho. You can expect to pay $2 to $3 each for teflon back-up rings.

Yes, replace both cartridges. If only the hot valve leaks, the cold valve won't be very far behind.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 03-04-2015 at 10:05 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-05-2015, 10:07 AM   #17
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


I replaced both cartridges and everything works fine now, minus a small constant leak on the new cold valve. The leak occurs every 5-10 seconds at the break where the cartridge rests on the valve body. I've tried tightening the cartridge but it won't go anymore.

Stem Valve Leak-imageuploadedbydiy-chat1425571506.600695.jpgStem Valve Leak-imageuploadedbydiy-chat1425571519.168289.jpg

My second issue is that I'm trying to rebuild the old cartridges but I can't get this knob off.

Stem Valve Leak-imageuploadedbydiy-chat1425571570.980032.jpg
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-05-2015, 10:58 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,932
Rewards Points: 3,430
Default


Try some pb blaster, let it sit on threads for awhile, tap all around it few times, use 2 channel locks or a channel lock and cresent wrench, (one to hold stem, one to loosen nut). try again.
jmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-05-2015, 11:10 AM   #19
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


Ok and what about the small leak on the new cartridge?
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 11:46 AM   #20
FIDO...
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 208
Rewards Points: 323
Default


deleted post - wrong info
Chris130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 12:05 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


The leak on the cold valve is most likely because you didn't remove ALL of the fiber washer from the surface of the valve body that the fiber washer mates with. However, if you used 96100 cartridges, that rubber 016 O-ring should gradually flow to conform to the surface it's sealing against, thereby stopping the leak. (That's just as I said in my first post; rubber is a very viscous fluid which will flow under heat and/or pressure.) I would use a wire to suspend an empty soup can under the cold water faucet, and wait for it to stop leaking.

If you used 76100 cartridges instead, to stop the leak you pretty well need to remove the new cartridge and clean that mating surface of the valve body better.

In Photos # 1 and #2, you don't need teflon tape on the garden hose threads of your water shut off valves. You should use a strainer washer in that joint instead to catch any crap in the water that could get into the washer's water mixing valve. Any hardware store will sell strainer washers with stainless steel strainer screens.

The handles should come off those cartridges relatively easily. If they don't, then use a pair of wire cutters to grip the screw holding the handle on and twist the screw with the wire cutters. To prevent this problem in the first place, use anti-seize compound between the end of the cartridge stem and the white metal handle. Anti-seize compound is nothing more than very finely ground particles of either copper or nickle suspended in grease. The metal particles prevent metal-to-metal contact between the stem and handle, thereby preventing the two from seizing together.

If you have to break that white metal handle to get it off the spindle, you can replace those Waltec metal handles with Emco plastic handles. The Emco handles are Master Plumber Part # Q168B for the blue plastic handle, insert and brass screw (for the cold faucet) and Q168C for the red plastic handle, insert and brass screw (for the hot faucet). Just to be sure, tho, next time you're in Home Depot, or wherever, try putting a Q168 Emco handle on a Waltec 76100 or 96100 cartridge to confirm they're mutually compatable.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 01:11 PM   #22
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


Nestor, I made a mistake buying the 76100 cartridges. I was in a rush because I had my tenants waiting with the building's water off so I panicked and just brought my cartridges to the store as reference for the rep and he gave me the 76100s.

Quote:
If you used 76100 cartridges instead, to stop the leak you pretty well need to remove the new cartridge and clean that mating surface of the valve body better.
Damn, means I gotta advise the tennats I'm turning off the water again... assuming I'm even able to find some debris on the mating surface of the valve body (or even a way to clean it).

Are you sure there's no chance that time will seal the leak with the 76100s I've installed? It's a couple of hours now and every time I wipe it still has some drops accumulated.

Quote:
In Photos # 1 and #2, you don't need teflon tape on the garden hose threads of your water shut off valves.
The reason I have that is because when I had my old black rubber feed hoses, they would leak without tephlon tape so I had to do it. Is there a problem with doing that though? Even though it's not necessary? I'll take it off next time if anything.

Quote:
You should use a strainer washer in that joint instead to catch any crap in the water that could get into the washer's water mixing valve.
The washer has one built into it, so the water coming from the lines gets strained before entering the machine.

On second thought, if I can't get that handle off the old cartridge, it's not that much of a problem; I'll simply use it with the cartridge for it's next job. After-all, it needs to be there anyways. And yes, next chance I have, I'll color code the handles, but I was in a bit of a rush this morning with my tenants and all.
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 01:29 PM   #23
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


Also, how could the leak be due to debris if the valve leaks with the cartridge in the open position (i.e.: with water passing through to the washer)? In that case Wouldnt the leak be due to the o-ring on the new cartridge not sealing well?
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 03:44 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Regarding the leak, there's no harm in suspending a tin can under the leaking shut off valve and seeing if the rate of leakage slows. Just empty the can every morning and evening, or however often it needs to be emptied. If the rate of water leakage slows, there's a chance and a hope it'll stop leaking on it's own. There's no harm in doing that just to see if it stops on it's own.

When I do this kind of work, I use a sharp paint scraper blade GENTLY to scrape off any fiber washer sticking to the valve body's mating surface.

There's also no HARM in having teflon tape on your faucet garden hose threads. Normally, pipe threads are tapered (very much like drill pipe threads) and so the teflon tape or pipe dope applied to the threads gets squeezed as you tighten the joint, thereby making a water tight seal.



Note that plumbing pipe threads have a taper to them as well, but plumbing pipe threads increase in diameter at only about 1/4 inch per foot (IIRC) compared to the much greater taper on drill pipe threads.

Garden hose threads aren't tapered and so the teflon tape doesn't get squeezed to effect a water tight seal at all. But, that teflon tape isn't doing any harm there either.

Also, Master Plumber's Emco handles sold as part numbers Q168B and Q168C will fit properly on your Waltec cartridge spindles, but the screw that holds the handles on will be different, so you'll need to get some different screws. Emco shut off valve stems use a size #10 machine screw with a fine thread (which is 32 threads per inch) whereas Waltec stems use a size #10 machine screw with a coarse thread (which is 24 threads per inch). You can buy both #10 X 24 tpi and #10 X 32 tpi machine screws in various lengths in both brass and stainless steel at your local Rona store.

Just suspend a can or something under the leaking valve to see if it stops dripping on it's own. And, if you have to replace that cartridge, clean the mating surface on the valve body as best you can, and use a 96100 cartridge instead.

The right way to look at this is that despite that leak, you now know vastly more about your laundry room water shut off valves than you did 2 days ago, and are therefore much better able to make decisions on how to maintain them and keep them in good order.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 03-05-2015 at 03:55 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 04:24 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,660
Rewards Points: 6,320
Default


Before removing the leaking valve in an attempt to repair, and I suspect at some point you will in the near future, I recommend having replacement O rings on hand and install them.

While the valve is apart check closely for any internal sharp edges or burrs that could cut / nick the O rings during assembly. Be liberal with lubricant but not so much it may carry through to the mixer valve in the laundry unit.
SeniorSitizen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 04:40 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


To find out who sells O-rings and teflon back-up rings in your town or city, look in your yellow pages under either Hydraulic Equipment & Supplies, Pneumatic Equipment & Supplies or just under "Seals". Some places will have a $5 minimum order.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 07:20 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidify View Post
Also, how could the leak be due to debris if the valve leaks with the cartridge in the open position (i.e.: with water passing through to the washer)? In that case Wouldnt the leak be due to the o-ring on the new cartridge not sealing well?
Where exactly is that leak occuring?

Is it between the old valve body and the new cartridge body?

Or is it between the stem and the cartridge body.

If it's the former, it's probably due to some of the old fiber gasket still being on the mating surface of the old valve body.

If it's the latter, then it's a problem with the 110 O-ring inside the new cartridge body. It may be nicked or cut somehow.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 03-05-2015 at 07:25 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 10:05 PM   #28
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


At the day's close, the valve is still letting water pass through (in the open position) and it is no longer leaking.

Quote:
Where exactly is that leak occuring?
Quote:
Is it between the old valve body and the new cartridge body?
Yes. This is where it was leaking.



Quote:
Garden hose threads aren't tapered and so the teflon tape doesn't get squeezed to effect a water tight seal at all. But, that teflon tape isn't doing any harm there either.
Very informative. I don't think I can ever learn enough from you on this one thread.

Concerning the handles, it's not really a necessity just a matter of aesthetics. Everything in my home has the cold on the right and the hot on the left so I don't see a need to colour code them. Maybe one day when I find some spares I'll swap then on there but for now, it's not worth the money nor the drive to the home center.

Quote:
The right way to look at this is that despite that leak, you now know vastly more about your laundry room water shut off valves than you did 2 days ago, and are therefore much better able to make decisions on how to maintain them and keep them in good order.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks to all of you ofcourse.

Quote:
Before removing the leaking valve in an attempt to repair, [...] I recommend having replacement O rings on hand and install them.
To clear up any confusion, would someone mind labeling this diagram for me? Because there's a lot of new terms I'm hearing today and I'd like to clear up any ambiguity. (Please add any parts I missed).



And why does the 96100 cartridge have 2 rubber rings on it that the 76100 cartridge does not?
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 11:25 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Solidify:

1. In Canada and the USA, having the hot faucet on the left and the cold faucet on the right is standard plumbing practice. I think it's even a requirement of the plumbing code. Where ever you go in Canada or the US, kitchen, bathroom and bathtub faucets will normally have the hot faucet on the left and the cold faucet on the right. I don't know if there's a reason for that or not.

2. On your diagram, going from left to right, the parts are:
a. bibb screw (which is normally made of brass)
b. bibb washer
c. 016 O-ring
d. 017 O-ring
e. splined end of the cartridge stem.

3. If you look at the 96100 cartidge, it is essentially a 76100 cartidge with a groove machined in it to accomodate the 017 O-ring. The 016 O-ring replaces the fiber gasket that the cartridge would otherwise need. By using an O-ring instead of a fiber gasket, the cartridge can be installed and not leak even if the mating surface of the valve body isn't perfectly clean.

4. Normally, it's the 016 O-ring that's used as a gasket on Waltec valves and faucets. I haven't come across any Waltec valves or faucets that use the 017 O-ring as a seal, and so in most cases, the 017 O-ring can be left off the cartridge. I really don't know why Waltec chose to include that O-ring on their 96100 cartridge.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 11:55 AM   #30
Member
 
Solidify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,278
Rewards Points: 834
Default


Quote:
a. bibb screw (which is normally made of brass)
I read somewhere that the bibb screw is usually made of a metal called monel that won't rust.

Quote:
By using an O-ring instead of a fiber gasket, the cartridge can be installed and not leak even if the mating surface of the valve body isn't perfectly clean.
Bingo. Is this why you recommended the 96100 over the 76100?

Lastly, is it worth replacing the new 76100s I installed for 96100s if the leak has stopped?
Solidify is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to replace the trigger valve on a Bostich Nail Gun. brokenknee How To Guides 13 07-03-2017 04:29 PM
Help replacing stem valve assembly for washing machine a12733861 Plumbing 7 01-12-2012 11:13 AM
Can't remove bath tub handle valve stem. kuyaariel Plumbing 13 05-02-2011 11:20 PM
Very Small leak at Shower Valve on Cold Water Side, Threaded. Tighten it more or ? twilightcall Plumbing 3 08-25-2008 08:19 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts