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Old 01-21-2017, 05:45 PM   #1
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Plumbing failure


First time user I'm looking for hints and comments about what I'd call a nightmare for us.

Moving in december 2014 in our new house, I found out recently that we had a leak in one wall faucet. As we have a house on slab the water went under the hardwood and we didn't see any damage above (we have a concrete slab, 2"x3" and plywood below hardwood).

The whole floor is currently beeing changed (50k $ damage). I found out that the other wall faucet from the same company/brand was leaking too (less).

Without saying the brand of faucet, let's say they cost 300$ (CAD) each and we really thought they'd be high quality.

The parts seems to have a crack (hairline?) both on the cold water line.
Could it be a wrong batch? Could our plumber overtightend it?

Thanks.
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Old 01-21-2017, 05:50 PM   #2
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Pictures
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Old 01-21-2017, 06:06 PM   #3
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Re: Plumbing failure


Cannot always go by price. Some designs are not that popular so they cost a lot more since not made in quantity.

Cant say for sure. But it should not have really been possible to over-tighten that.
Would not blame the plumber on this.
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Old 01-21-2017, 06:14 PM   #4
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Re: Plumbing failure


Flawed castings. Talk with a atty. Don't remove the adapters.
The adapters don't appear to be over tightened, but really impossible to tell by just looking.


Have the lines ever been frozen?

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Old 01-21-2017, 07:08 PM   #5
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Re: Plumbing failure


I could could determine which was cracked without looking beyond the first picture. That fitting screwed in that far is referred to as buried. That's one of the disadvantages of teflon tape in the hands of a plumber without any common sense. I'm betting he heard it pop and said to hell with it, I'm on a time schedule and those cost a lot of money. I feel for you being without much recourse and possibly none at all.

Wrong picture and I can't get it to fly away.
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:26 PM   #6
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Re: Plumbing failure


Are you by any chance looking for someone to pick up the bill?

As a plumber, I wouldn't warranty a valve supplied by the owner. And as a plumber, I would avoid purchasing one with IP ports. I would have ordered with pex or sweat connections....
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Old 01-22-2017, 06:23 AM   #7
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Thanks for your thoughts.
Our insurance is covering most of the cost and they'll probably go after the parts company. I didn't remove the adapter and these were into interior wall without freezing. I'm really shocked that parts can break like that. We had a licensed plumber with expérience installing them (and removing them). Could it be brass cracking ? (is this brass??) lead free brass is known for beeing more fragile?
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:04 AM   #8
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Re: Plumbing failure


It seems you don't understand the force of a inclined plane. Those fittings are tapered 0.750"/ foot and when screwed together that far something is going to give and it will be the brass fitting every time no matter what kind of brass it is.

The insurance will go after the entity with the most money, and that's not the plumber, no matter what his credentials. And when that fitting becomes " show and tell " in the court they won't have the chance of a snow ball in hell against the manufacturer.

The plumber screwed up, period.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorSitizen View Post
The plumber screwed up, period.
I'm not sure to follow you on that one. Isn't the part fabricant's responsability to check that the adapter won't crack the fitting when tightened?

Could the adapters beeing responsible for the crack? (2 pieces almost at the same place).
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:45 AM   #10
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Re: Plumbing failure


Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotcha View Post
I'm not sure to follow you on that one. Isn't the part fabricant's responsability to check that the adapter won't crack the fitting when tightened?

Could the adapters beeing responsible for the crack? (2 pieces almost at the same place).
************************************************** *\
The fabricant is no more responsible for the crack than a wheel lug manufacturer is when a mechanic uses an impact to tighten lug nuts on your car wheels and twists the lug nut stud off.

The adapters weren't the culprit. The plumber without a brain was.
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:32 AM   #11
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Re: Plumbing failure


This is a potentially complex problem that is generally resolved by a forensic engineering investigation, if there is enough money in the problem to warrant such an investigation. As an aside, I have performed forensic investigations for over ten years, and I can offer a little insight into the process.

1. This is an internet chat forum, so people feel free to offer opinions based on photos and anecdotal information offered by individuals. In an actual forensic investigation designed to determine cause and origin of an accident, the most important tool is a careful hands on investigation by the analyst.

2. Often the part in question is sent off to a laboratory for specialized investigation. In this case, one of the key questions would be if the installer used normal practice during the installation. For example, did the installer use the manufacturer recommended type of tape, number of wraps, use of pipe dope, number of turn of the wrench, that sort of thing.

3. The casting itself would normally require a metallurgical investigation to determine if the alloy is properly fabricated. The case of Zurn brass castings which failed is instructive in understanding how a metallurgical investigation is carried out.

4. In the end, the analyst needs to offer an opinion as to the root cause of the problem, and who bears responsibility for the failure. The insurance company will take the results and use them to determine if the claim is covered, and whether the insurance company will cross file against one or more parties.

Of course, the investigation may never occur, if the insurance company decides it is not worth the cost to determine fault. In the interim, I suggest assigning a reasonable amount of skepticism to free opinions offered on an internet chat forum as to the cause and origin of your failure.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:06 AM   #12
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Interesting point. I'm not involved (yet) in the "case" between the insurance/fabricant (insurance)/plumber. I don't know if such an investigation will be performed by one. I'd think the fabricant will want to.
That Zurn brass story is intuitively interesting to compare to but I know that there has to be more investigation to be done.

We decided to change the wall faucet for "standard" ones without a rough in the wall. I don't feel good with such a ticking bomb behind our wall.

Thanks for everyone insight.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:18 AM   #13
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Here's a picture taken on one of the hot water line. It seems like a white powder.
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:44 PM   #14
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Re: Plumbing failure


Ayuh,.... I'm with SS,.... I see shoddy work done by a plumber,....

In yer last picture, those 2 adapter fittin's should be just a single fittin',.....
They make fittin's that go from pex to pipe thread, in All the right sizes,....

The Plumber, insteada gettin' the Right fittin', instead, used a bushin' adapter to cob in the obviously to small of fittin' he used to go from pex to pipe,....

The cracked faucets were from over-tightenin' the fittin's,.....
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:35 PM   #15
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From the instruction manual, I see 1/2 NPT with 15-20 turns.

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