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Old 06-25-2016, 03:13 PM   #1
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No draining but no blockage???


Hello,

My sink doesn't drain, but when I separate the siphon from the pipe and pour water directly into the pipe, there is no problem. Same with the siphon itself. I don't see a blockage anywhere, but when I put it all together, there it is!

Maybe it is something to do with physics?

You can find a picture of the set up attached.

Any help would be really appreciate it.

Many thanks!
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No draining but no blockage???-4687ce009e75c318d5d458cf223d630do.jpg  
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:09 PM   #2
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Are you in Europe or Asia?

That type of trap is not used in North America---I suspect the trap if the pipe drains when the trap is removed--have you opened up the trap and cleaned it out?
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Old 06-25-2016, 08:41 PM   #3
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Hi, thanks for replying.

Yeah, it's European.

I'm afraid I've checked all parts for residues and cleaned them, with no effect.

It is strange because, you see, the siphon/trap works fine when I try it on its own: the water flows through it with no problem, it never overflows.

That is why this problem baffles me. I cannot understand why each part works separately, but once I put them together, it fails.

The only thing that comes to mind is some physics that I don't get related to the shape of the siphon in conjunction with stagnant water (or lack of it) somewhere down the pipe creating some weird effect or something like that... I truly don't know.
It is very hard for me to imagine the reason and how to fix it.

Could an inappropriate water level down the drains cause this due to the shape of the siphon, really? I mention it because it was raining quite a bit these past few days, and I live in a rural area, so I guess the drainage system could be affected? That would also be strange because I've seen far worse storms hitting longer and nothing happened...

As you see, I'm lashing out wildly with my theories... Pretty confusing.
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Old 06-26-2016, 09:03 AM   #4
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Maybe the trap has a gate that won't operate because of vacuum problem or being obstructed by the connections - misshapen washer, rings, etc? You may have to replace the trap and see what happens. In US, old barrel traps are obsolete although it depends on non moving parts and many still work fine, with cleaning.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:32 PM   #5
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Hi carpdad, thanks for the suggestions.

This trap doesn't have moving parts and, although it is not squeaky-clean, there's nothing blocking the water flow. I cannot see any rings or other element obstructing the connections, either.

However, you make a good point when mentioning vacuum.
That said, could somebody please explain to me how vacuum would have suddenly appeared?
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Old 06-26-2016, 08:05 PM   #6
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


In the united states all plumbing relies on venting air to aid drainage flow and keep trap seals.
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:45 AM   #7
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Is this a new problem or always slow?
I'm going to guess no/poor venting as well.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:22 AM   #8
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
In the united states all plumbing relies on venting air to aid drainage flow and keep trap seals.
As far as I know, that's not how it works here.

Quote:
Is this a new problem or always slow?
I'm going to guess no/poor venting as well.
I've been living here for about 15 months and never noticed. The only reason for which I know is because the washing machine drains through the same pipe and I saw water dripping from the washing machine tumbler; when I looked inside, it was flooded with water that came in through the washing machine drainage pipe, situated on top of the siphon, that's why water never came back to the sink, it was all going to the tumbler. I don't know how long that was going on for, because I don't use that washing machine, but it couldn't be too long.

What would you recommend for the venting problem, considering that I don't think plumbing works like that here.

By the way, I used a toothbrush to clean the siphon and the pipe (as far as I can reach) as good as possible, even though there was no real obstruction. The water-flow improved slightly, but I still have the same issue.
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:09 AM   #9
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Quote:
Originally Posted by goteante View Post
As far as I know, that's not how it works here.
By the way, I used a toothbrush to clean the siphon and the pipe (as far as I can reach) as good as possible, even though there was no real obstruction. The water-flow improved slightly, but I still have the same issue.
Well, physics is physics; air is needed to allow drainage (equalizes air pressure effects etc...).

Instead of a toothbrush, anything like the snake pictured here in Spain:
here?
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Old 06-27-2016, 01:10 PM   #10
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


I've been told that the rule in EU is to have one vent, do not ask me where though.

The snake was going to be my next step. I guess I can find it here.

Back to the venting issue, would the snake get rid of the problem if used it in the pipe, or would I have to find the vent stack and work through there? I swear, I cannot see anything sticking out from the roof or anywhere that I can identify with a vent stack
Do you have any idea where I could find any information about this particular venting system, if necessary?

Thanks bob22 for your help.
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Old 06-27-2016, 01:34 PM   #11
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Usually vent stacks don't get clogged unless something falls into them (bird's nest, ball, etc...).
No idea where to get info for Spain. Likely books at your town's library or bookstores' Home Improvement/Repair section.
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Old 06-27-2016, 01:55 PM   #12
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


I suppose I'd have to use a different method depending on what were obstructing the vent, if that was the case.

I'd like to point out that this is a VERY old stone house, centenarian perhaps, so maybe that could explain a lack of venting system, even though the plumbing is not original?

Back to a possible clogged pipe so. Does a partially clogged pipe and physics explain how the water runs through it in low volumes, even if slow, and it gets slower, to the point of overflow, the higher the volume of water used?
Also, if the pipe is not the problem, would the lack of ventilation explain it?

Last edited by goteante; 06-27-2016 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 06-27-2016, 03:36 PM   #13
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


In your picture- What are the other 2 pipes/hoses for?
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:39 PM   #14
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


I assume you are referring to the ones coming from the right.

I think the bottom one might be wires. It's covered, so I actually do not know. It looks like something that it is not used: the end you see hanging there is not connected to anything. Maybe related to the washing machine, somehow, since the appliance is on the right.

The one on top is the washing machine drainage pipe. It is normally connected to the pipe leading to the siphon (just above the picture, between the sink and the siphon). I disconnected it to examine the interior of the siphon and the pipe.

Last edited by goteante; 06-27-2016 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 12:00 AM   #15
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Re: No draining but no blockage???


Quote:
Originally Posted by goteante View Post
Hello,

My sink doesn't drain, but when I separate the siphon from the pipe and pour water directly into the pipe, there is no problem. Same with the siphon itself. I don't see a blockage anywhere, but when I put it all together, there it is!

Maybe it is something to do with physics?
You may be interested in reading
http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Pl...efinitions.php
and
http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Ai...udor_Vents.php
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