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Rav 12-02-2015 02:08 PM

Need help removing old shutoff valves so I can put new ones on
 
3 Attachment(s)
The two old shutoff valves to my washing machine are completely frozen and I want to replace them with 1/4 turn valves. I want to make sure I understand what's currently there and what I need to do before I start. See attached pics.

1. I assume that what I'm calling the "elbow nut" is integral to the elbow, and doesn't turn independently from the elbow, and is just there to be able to put a wrench on it to prevent twisting of the pipe and joints when I remove the valve. Correct?

2. What I'm calling the "valve nut" appears to be integral to the valve, and doesn't turn independently from the valve, and is just there to be able to put a wrench on it to turn the valve. Correct?

3. I can see threads between the elbow nut and the valve nut on the cold water valve, but not the hot. Are the threads that are visible on the cold water valve part of the valve, and so do those threads screw out of the elbow nut? Or are they part of the elbow nut, and the valve screws onto those threads?

4. Given that my assumptions above are correct, I plan to put a wrench on the valve nut and turn counter-clockwise, while holding onto the elbow nut with another wrench. I may use some penetrating oil first to loosen it up.

5. I'd appreciate suggestions for a new valve that will thread onto the existing elbow on one end and be able to attach the washing machine hose at the other.

Thanks!

joecaption 12-02-2015 02:22 PM

I do not think it's a union elbow (as opposed to a nut elbow)
That hex is just to put a wrench on while tightning up the other fittings.
If that was mine I'd getting rid of that style valve and replacing with ball valves, a street elbow then male garden hose connectors.
A street elbow in just one with male fittings on one end and female on the other.
Use all brass fitting if you do not want rusting issues, cost far more but well worth it.

Colbyt 12-02-2015 02:27 PM

Can't be positive both are the same valve but they look like it. One (no visible threads) was over tightened with the wrong wrench.

Water off, a big adjustable wrench for the elbow fitting and a pipe wrench for the faucets combined with pipe dope and two of these http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-...53EB/205822362 should solve your problems.

Rav 12-02-2015 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 2745193)
I do not think it's a union elbow (as opposed to a nut elbow)
That hex is just to put a wrench on while tightning up the other fittings.
If that was mine I'd getting rid of that style valve and replacing with ball valves, a street elbow then male garden hose connectors.
A street elbow in just one with male fittings on one end and female on the other.
Use all brass fitting if you do not want rusting issues, cost far more but well worth it.

Thanks, Joe. Are you saying get rid of the existing elbow (and elbow nut) and replace it with a street elbow? If so, then it looks like that would involve sweating on the new elbow onto the copper pipe, and I'm not able to do that. Or are you saying the street elbow attaches to the outlet of the ball valve, and if so, why would that be needed?

joecaption 12-02-2015 02:36 PM

No the old valves just unscrew, you can not see the threads because of all the corrosion on the close nipples.
You want the street elbows so the fittings will be facing down , not straight out.

Rav 12-02-2015 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colbyt (Post 2745201)
Can't be positive both are the same valve but they look like it. One (no visible threads) was over tightened with the wrong wrench.

Water off, a big adjustable wrench for the elbow fitting and a pipe wrench for the faucets combined with pipe dope and two of these http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-...53EB/205822362 should solve your problems.

Thanks, Colbyt. I assume the adjustable wrench is just to hold onto the elbow fitting, not turn it in any way. And the pipe wrench instead of an adjustable wrench is for removing the faucets because the over-tightened nut is stripped?

Rav 12-02-2015 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 2745233)
No the old valves just unscrew, you can not see the threads because of all the corrosion on the close nipples.
You want the street elbows so the fittings will be facing down , not straight out.

OK, thanks Joe, understood (though it looks like the faucets that colbyt linked to would face down by themselves).

joecaption 12-02-2015 02:43 PM

That boiler drain would be a better way if those nipples unscrew.
Got a 50/50 chance of that happening.

Rav 12-02-2015 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 2745273)
That boiler drain would be a better way if those nipples unscrew.
Got a 50/50 chance of that happening.

If I understand correctly, there's a small nipple (a "close" nipple, one with no unthreaded area) between the elbow nut and the valve nut. And again if I understand correctly, that nipple should screw out of both the elbow nut and the valve nut. When you say there's a 50/50 chance of that happening, do you mean because it may be so frozen tight in there? If I use penetrating oil and a 1/2" internal pipe wrench, do I have a better chance? THEN, assuming I get the nipple out, I assume the MIP threads on the valve that Colbyt recommended take the place of the nipple? Thanks much for your help.

joecaption 12-02-2015 04:44 PM

If the nipple does not come out just use a female boiler drain instead of a male would be the easiest way.

Ghostmaker 12-02-2015 09:36 PM

Make sure you backup the 90 on the wall. Try unscrewing the boiler drains first after shutting off the house water and draining out as much as you can. If they do not unscrew easily try tightening them a bit then unscrew them it's an old plumbing trick.

Looks like 1/2 inch pipe thread.

Colbyt 12-03-2015 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav (Post 2745241)
Thanks, Colbyt. I assume the adjustable wrench is just to hold onto the elbow fitting, not turn it in any way. And the pipe wrench instead of an adjustable wrench is for removing the faucets because the over-tightened nut is stripped?


Yes to both.

carpdad 12-03-2015 07:46 AM

I'd start with the packing nut. That is the nut closest to the handle. If you can loosen it just a little (with the water off), you may be able to turn the handle. Then turn the nut, turn the handle, repeat until the valve stem is turning freely. Older valves had the stem and the washer that would come out for replacing the washer. But the washer seat, screw, and the valve seat probably are damaged from corrosion and it is best to replace the whole valve. If the water shuts off, you can try repacking the packing nut with graphite or taflon cord, or just tighten the packing nut. If just tightening the packing nut, I don't torque the handle all the way to the on or off position. Leave it little loose from the on position then tighten the packing nut.
Check the youtube. Probably there is a video of it.

Rav 12-03-2015 04:41 PM

Still trying to loosen valve
 
2 Attachment(s)
OP here. I was able to remove the valve stem, but had no luck finding replacement parts (I went to a plumbing supply store). So I'm still trying to remove the entire valve. I cleaned the connection up and sprayed on Kroil penetrating oil, and tapped on it a few times. After an hour, it still won't budge. I've attached two more pictures. It looks to me like it may not be a nipple between the elbow and the valve, but that the valve has male threads built into it. In other words, it's the valve that is screwed into the elbow. Does it look that way to people here? I'm going to try letting it sit overnight marinating in the Kroil.

rjniles 12-03-2015 05:09 PM

I agree, the valve has a male thread. Use a wrench to hold the elbow. Another in the valve and put some beef into it.


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