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Old 04-14-2015, 07:24 PM   #16
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ok lets not turn this into some debate...your smarter than that...when we run into 100 yr old plumbing we have to bring it to code..no getting around it as a contractor. there is always a way to redue it so its compliant...you as a home owner can do what you like when its not being inspected ..till you sell the property then it will be inspected failed and redone.... but you do understand as professionals we can't allow that type of guidance because it would be wrong...its great it worked for you and your happy with it, fyi I have and can install abs and pvc pipe into predrilled holes without using cupplings....we do it all the time...ben
As a contractor you have to advise someone to follow code, or else you are opening yourself up to a major lawsuit. A homeowner legally cannot do something other than follow code, although as a practical matter many do, especially when following code turns a $200 fix into a $4000 fix, for example, if the $200 solution is otherwise fine.

I suspect the problem is that there is not a good way for a homeowner to challenge code as applied to his house in those few circumstances where following code yields little or no actual benefit as compared to the cost. While you don't want *a lot* of variation in plumbing for good reason, there are times when a rubber hose should be fine.

The code is put together by smart people and there are good reasons for most of it. But it sometimes has really bad results in practice--for example, the extra money spent on rerouting an entire waste system when an old lead pipe goes might have been spent upgrading the electric to GFI, which in an older home is more likely to save a life.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:45 PM   #17
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Ben, I agree w/ most everything you said. I take exception to "providing guidance". Going back to post #1 you will see that I was looking for guidance not providing it.
And you and others have said it loud and proud, "there is no flexible line solution".

In this case all the planets were aligned against me. From the cast iron drain tee being too high, to the drain start and stop points being cross corner in the room. Oh.........and of course no vent. I put a cleanout Tee with air check under the sink cabinet.

I was hoping for a better mouse trap!
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:53 PM   #18
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First off a DWV coupling leaves a smooth finish when glued properly. Second off to do your job correctly you would probable need to cut into the stack. What is an Air Check can't find that in my code book. So why come to a site and ask professionals how to hack up your install seems to me your doing a great job hacking it up your self. So hack it up in the end when you have that sweet **** smell in your kitchen pat your self on the back. Don't be alarmed if the future buyer deducts the cost of repairs off your home price.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:55 PM   #19
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Per Tom - "As a contractor you have to advise someone to follow code, or else you are opening yourself up to a major lawsuit. A homeowner legally cannot do something other than follow code, although as a practical matter many do, especially when following code turns a $200 fix into a $4000 fix, for example, if the $200 solution is otherwise fine."

Well said and close to the very numbers that I was kicking around.
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:05 PM   #20
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Ben, I agree w/ most everything you said. I take exception to "providing guidance". Going back to post #1 you will see that I was looking for guidance not providing it.
And you and others have said it loud and proud, "there is no flexible line solution".

In this case all the planets were aligned against me. From the cast iron drain tee being too high, to the drain start and stop points being cross corner in the room. Oh.........and of course no vent. I put a cleanout Tee with air check under the sink cabinet.

I was hoping for a better mouse trap!
hey man Iam not disrespecting you at all ..was not talking about you providing guidance we can't let things go if its not right....you are not providing guidance and what you did was not right and I would not want another diy to follow it...
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:06 PM   #21
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What is an Air Check can't find that in my code book.
Basically a 1 1/2" air check valve that aids drainage like a vent would do.
Lets air in but prevents sewer gas from coming out. Goes on the top side of the P-trap inlet TEE. Threads right in place of where a vertical clean out plug would go. Pretty common in this old house neighborhood. Sorry could not find pic.

btw - I don't disagree that well fitted els & couplers would provide a semi smooth bore. I guess my hang up was breaking into the 4" ci vent stack to get the required slope. I appreciate yours and Bens passion and enthusiasm for the trade. I actually enjoy this stuff!
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:42 PM   #22
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Per Tom - "As a contractor you have to advise someone to follow code, or else you are opening yourself up to a major lawsuit. A homeowner legally cannot do something other than follow code, although as a practical matter many do, especially when following code turns a $200 fix into a $4000 fix, for example, if the $200 solution is otherwise fine."

Well said and close to the very numbers that I was kicking around.
It is worth noting that Homeowners who do this do open themselves up to risk as well--if there's a leak down the road insurance likely won't cover the damage, for example, and there's a high likelihood of having to do it correctly when the house is sold or if the municipal inspector finds out. There are also the risks of being fined. And possibly the biggest reason to do it right, of course, is that if an improvised job goes wrong, you have to pay at least what it would have cost you to do it right. So there are really good reasons to do everything the way it *should* be done.

Thus I wouldn't advise someone to do it, but I certainly understand that in the real world you just don't always have the resources, time, skill or knowledge to do things correctly, or the money to hire a professional to do them correctly.
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