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Old 04-21-2019, 12:03 PM   #1
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Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Recently pulled up a line of bushes along the edge of the driveway. Fast forward a couple weeks and I think the sump line may have been disturbed and cracked underneath the driveway when pulling the roots.

A large crack appeared in the driveway near the house and every time the sump pump runs, water gushes out of it. I located the sump line at the edge of the driveway and it appears to only be ~ 8 inches down from grade.

My plan is to use a diamond wheel and score a section across the driveway and concrete pad next to the house, bust it out with a sledge, and dig up the line.

If it's busted somewhere along the straight section out in the open, is it an appropriate fix to cut out a section of pvc and use couplings to patch in a new section of pvc? Obviously if it is busted right at the foundation wall, more work will be required.

Thoughts? Suggestions?


Last edited by dtbingle; 04-21-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 04-21-2019, 12:57 PM   #2
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Ayuh,..... I'd cut, pull, 'n dig the asphalt area 1st,.......

If the break is in that area, it'll save redoin' the concrete,....
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Old 04-21-2019, 01:27 PM   #3
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


I realize it doesn't solve your problem but I'm a little surprised that the output of a sump pump would be sufficient to open up a crack in a driveway. Is the rest of the discharge line clear? Do you know what the diameter of the line is?
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Old 04-21-2019, 02:36 PM   #4
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It’s a 1.5” pvc line inside and then it goes into a shielded coupling right at the foundation wall. It looks like it’s a 2” pvc line outside where it was dug up at the edge of the driveway, but haven’t cleared enough water out to read the markings.

I agree that the pump pressure isn’t enough to blow through the driveway, but it looks like what happened is that it eroded the dirt/sand underneath and one section sunk down.

Sounds good! Time to rent a concrete saw and start with the asphalt section then. Hopefully we get lucky in where it broke.
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Old 04-21-2019, 04:40 PM   #5
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


I'm not surprised by the asphalt damage at all, when we had dump trucks deliver gravel and top soil to our house they had run over the sump pump line across the second driveway (which wasn't buried deep enough.) It took a year or two, but a sink hole opened up in the middle of the driveway (not a paved.) The main driveway is paved though and it's sloped down toward the house plus we're on the downside of a hill so the snow melt and rain water goes straight to our front porch - that's cracked our asphalt walkway up pretty bad due to frost heave/permafrost.


To your busted pipe though @dtbingle If you don't think there's any other breaks in the pipe you should be able to couple on a new length of PVC to replace the broken part. Make sure you put in new gravel/dirt and compact it good because any continued erosion later down the road will cause constant harassment and headaches. We tried to take "short cuts" on fixing our pipe and we've had to put new gravel/dirt into the rut every couple years because we didn't compact the new fill around it, it'd crack the pipe again so we just had a series of patchwork pipe across the drive that just didn't hold up to traffic.

We finally did it right and have had no issues since then. We buried ours deeper and put in gravel/dirt then wet it over a few months one summer, also put the PVC inside a metal tube so now dump trucks can drive over it no worries, also put some heat tape in the pipe so we don't have to worry about it freezing on us - we're below the water table so our sump pump runs even when it's 20 below 0 outside.
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Last edited by Mystriss; 04-21-2019 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:31 PM   #6
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Thanks for the info Mystriss. You hit on every point I have concerns about going forward haha.

When you did your permanent and correct fix, how deep did you bury it? Also, did you just compact a bed of gravel in the trench, lay the pipe, then encase it in gravel, then lay the driveway on top?

Our sump also runs throughout the entire winter too, but haven't had an issue with freezing yet....unless the freeze/thaw caused the current pipe crack lol. Not sure I'm sold on heat tape underground, but maybe there's an approved underground pipe insulation to achieve a similar effect?
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:07 PM   #7
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Pipes 1, Me - 0

So cut a channel across the driveway and unburied the pipe. Looks like Sch 35 4" PVC was used to cross under the driveway. Part way through discovered a section where the pipe partially caved in on itself.



Thought, yes! This must be clogged and caused a crack between there and the house. Nope. Continued to dig the rest of the distance and found the 1.5" line from the house was just stuck about a foot into the open end of the 4" PVC. It also looked like at one time that "connection" was wrapped in plastic. I can't imagine this is the proper way to do things?



After cutting the partially collapsed section out, it was apparent that the 1.5" line from the house was fine, and the entire 4" pvc length under the drive way not clogged. When the pump runs, it looks like it dumps into the 4" pipe and quickly overflows. To me, this suggests a) clog or collapsed pipe somewhere downstream, or b) system is at capacity with the ton of rain lately. I also don't see any termination to daylight (visible pipe or popup drain).

In other words, deferring this to a plumber to hopefully unclog the line in the front yard or do a camera inspection to see what's going on before tearing up the lawn.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:54 AM   #8
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Sorry I was MIA, sometimes I just don't feel like getting out of bed :P

It's possible you got a critter in there clogging it up. We had a porcupine get stuck in the culvert under our paved driveway. Had to call animal control to come save it, they stuck him with a sleepy dart because it zapped one of em when they got close - I warned the guy, but he blew me off.

Not sure if you still need the infos, but; I'm in Alaska so we went down a bit over 3 feet. We put the pvc inside a corrugated metal pipe. Due to rocks, frost heave, and earthquakes we'd put down probably an inch of pea gravel then 2-3" of topsoil, compacted that, then put down the pipe and covered it topsoil, compacted again, then gravel. (We haven't paved the second driveway, keep thinking about doing it, but we haven't yet. We don't do concrete up here though, it can't handle the deep freeze very well, asphalt is much better for our climate.)
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:33 AM   #9
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Wish I would have seen this earlier. I would have recommended abandon the existing line and rerun the line a different way out . Rather than do all that messing and cutting your driveway. There has to be another way . Even if you had to dig a french drain somewhere on the side of the house. Good luck.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:24 AM   #10
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Thanks for the info Mystriss!

Quote:
Originally Posted by COLDIRON View Post
Wish I would have seen this earlier. I would have recommended abandon the existing line and rerun the line a different way out . Rather than do all that messing and cutting your driveway. There has to be another way . Even if you had to dig a french drain somewhere on the side of the house. Good luck.
You know, I was just thinking this as well haha. However, my sump pit is not in an ideal location. If running through the basement foundation wall, the nearest point around the house that wouldn't require breaking up any adjacent concrete is about 60 feet away in the opposite corner of the house.

After the downstream issues are solved, I'm thinking to add a popup drain on the lawn just passed the edge of the driveway. It's at a lower grade, so if it does back up again, it should dump into the lawn first before filling up all of the way to the house. Then lay new, sch 40 4" pipe under the driveway instead of sch 35 stuff. Also considering running a new 1.5" discharge line through the rim joist above current foundation wall underground exit location and run into the 4" pipe with an air gap. In theory I think this should prevent any future freeze clogs and would allow a relief tee as another backup. Welcome to suggestions.

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Old 04-23-2019, 08:52 AM   #11
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbingle View Post
Thanks for the info Mystriss!



You know, I was just thinking this as well haha. However, my sump pit is not in an ideal location. If running through the basement foundation wall, the nearest point around the house that wouldn't require breaking up any adjacent concrete is about 60 feet away in the opposite corner of the house.

After the downstream issues are solved, I'm thinking to add a popup drain on the lawn just passed the edge of the driveway. It's at a lower grade, so if it does back up again, it should dump into the lawn first before filling up all of the way to the house. Then lay new, sch 40 4" pipe under the driveway instead of sch 35 stuff. Also considering running a new 1.5" discharge line through the rim joist above current foundation wall underground exit location and run into the 4" pipe with an air gap. In theory I think this should prevent any future freeze clogs and would allow a relief tee as another backup. Welcome to suggestions.

" Install a check valve right past the pump discharge"
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:09 AM   #12
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Quote:
Originally Posted by COLDIRON View Post
" Install a check valve right past the pump discharge"
Yep! Didn't include in drawing, but check valves are installed on both normal and backup pumps.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:26 AM   #13
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Re: Cracked sump pump line under driveway


Had a drain tech out that ran the sewer snake down the line. Multiple attempts, but kept getting stuck somewhere out near the street where the trench and storm drain are. Then had the camera tech out and pipe looks completely fine until that point downstream. He located the pipe and out of curiosity I asked the price for them to dig and fix. $1800. No thanks.. the pipe is only 10 inches down.

After digging it up, it looks like roots got under and shifted the section of pipe on the house side a couple inches up. Because of that, the rubber flex coupling was stretched and left an opening on one side. It appears the root ball made its new home inside the pipe right there.

The plan is to cut out a short section of pipe, clear all roots around it, then use a pvc coupling on the house side, and a new shielded coupling to attach to the street side.

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