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Old 01-02-2015, 03:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
At $6/ft for 3/4" ? Wowzers!!
I'd put in galvy first....
Galvy wouldn't last 1/2 as long as K copper.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:51 PM   #32
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Actually that's not really true. While it is true that Pex has been around for a while its use was mostly restricted to heating/cooling. It's only been around the last 10 years or so that people have started using it for potable water.
It's been in use about 50 years in Europe. It's been in use in heating in the US for 30 years. It's been popular for drinking water supply for 10 years in the US. I think 30 years is a more fair estimate than 10. I think saying it's 10 years old is a bit misleading.

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The ease in fixing is not the point. It's the damage a leaking pipe does to your house.
But ease in fixing is part of the point with PEX. I understand that water damage can be a big deal. But then again, as I said, I've never actually heard of rodent damage to PEX, even though it sounds plausible.

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No argument there... and if the op stated this job has to be done as cheaply as possible then the choice to use pex would be a no brainer... but that is not the case. The op stated price isn't an object. That being the case, copper is the better choice
I know, but you're the one who said it's a bit cheaper and a bit easier to use So I would say to the OP, does he mean cost no object in terms of materials and you're going to do it yourself, or cost no object and that includes having a plumber do all the work? Because making PEX connections takes little skill, while making copper connections takes some skill. If you are new with sweating, then you will get quite frustrated when you have to redo sweat connections. And furthermore, they are prone to small, hard to detect leaks if not sweated properly, which is a real problem for the DIYer.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:51 PM   #33
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PEX has been in use in Europe for at least fifty years,
Pex in Europe and Pex in North America are 2 different things. Chlorine content overall is lower in Europe... and that's in the places that actually use chlorine.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:52 PM   #34
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It's been in use about 50 years in Europe. .
Look up one post
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:55 PM   #35
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If you're hung up on chlorine, radiant heat systems still use the same water supply as drinking water, so w.r.t. to chlorine specifically, I think we can still safely use the 30 year period in the US.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:58 PM   #36
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But ease in fixing is part of the point with PEX. I understand that water damage can be a big deal. But then again, as I said, I've never actually heard of rodent damage to PEX, even though it sounds plausible.
Do a google search. You'll find some rodent issues. I even posted some in a previous thread.



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If you are new with sweating, then you will get quite frustrated when you have to redo sweat connections. And furthermore, they are prone to small, hard to detect leaks if not sweated properly, which is a real problem for the DIYer.
Sweating is just about as easy as using a pex crimper...but then I guess that's a pretty subjective thing given the person doing the work.

I don't find problems in sweating at all. Use a good flux like S-39 and just about any dummy can do it. It's the measuring and prefitting that takes all the time. You don't have to be anywhere near as precise in your measurements with pex.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:00 PM   #37
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If you're hung up on chlorine, radiant heat systems still use the same water supply as drinking water, so w.r.t. to chlorine specifically, I think we can still safely use the 30 year period in the US.
There is no (or very little) chlorine in radiant heat system. It has long since dissapated
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:12 PM   #38
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There is no (or very little) chlorine in radiant heat system. It has long since dissapated
Source?

On the other topics, we will just have to disagree
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:18 PM   #39
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Source?

On the other topics, we will just have to disagree
No source required. It's common knowledge. Chlorine dissipates pretty fast. Fill up a bowl of water and leave it on the counter for 24 hours. Then to a chlorine test. You'll find the chlorine count has pretty much zeroed out. It comes out of solution. That's why they tell you to let water "air" before you use it in your fish tank... to let the chlorine off-gas

Now it takes a little longer in a closed system not opened to the atmosphere, but it dissipates none the less.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:27 PM   #40
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No source required. It's common knowledge. Chlorine dissipates pretty fast. Fill up a bowl of water and leave it on the counter for 24 hours. Then to a chlorine test. You'll find the chlorine count has pretty much zeroed out. It comes out of solution.

Now it takes a little longer in a closed system not opened to the atmosphere, but it dissipates none the less.
Sorry, there's not much common knowledge involved in talking about how chlorine dissipates in a bowl of water when we are talking about closed plumbing systems. (And it's also not common sense to the common man that chlorine would or wouldn't dissipate anyway. Whether a chemical compound dissipates depends very much on the chemical.)

You haven't written anything so far that doesn't apply equally to common plumbing supply vs. radiant heating.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:35 PM   #41
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Sorry, there's not much common knowledge involved in talking about how chlorine dissipates in a bowl of water when we are talking about closed plumbing systems. (And it's also not common sense to the common man that chlorine would or wouldn't dissipate anyway. Whether a chemical compound dissipates depends very much on the chemical.)
Google is your friend if you don't believe.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:43 PM   #42
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Google is your friend if you don't believe.
I already know chlorine dissipates from an open bowl of water. I'm saying it's not common knowledge. If it were that common, fish tank dechlorinators wouldn't be such huge sellers.

It's also not common knowledge why chlorine would dissipate from water, while sodium and chlorine combined would not. Or that dihydrogen monoxide kills thousands of people each year in the US while being found in high concentration in our public water supply.
http://www.dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.html

These things require a little bit of knowledge of basic chemistry.

Anyway, back to your point. Do you have a source or reason for lower concentration levels of chlorine in radiant heat systems?
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:50 PM   #43
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It's been in use about 50 years in Europe. It's been in use in heating in the US for 30 years. It's been popular for drinking water supply for 10 years in the US. I think 30 years is a more fair estimate than 10. I think saying it's 10 years old is a bit misleading.



But ease in fixing is part of the point with PEX. I understand that water damage can be a big deal. But then again, as I said, I've never actually heard of rodent damage to PEX, even though it sounds plausible.



I know, but you're the one who said it's a bit cheaper and a bit easier to use So I would say to the OP, does he mean cost no object in terms of materials and you're going to do it yourself, or cost no object and that includes having a plumber do all the work? Because making PEX connections takes little skill, while making copper connections takes some skill. If you are new with sweating, then you will get quite frustrated when you have to redo sweat connections. And furthermore, they are prone to small, hard to detect leaks if not sweated properly, which is a real problem for the DIYer.
Thanks.

I will be piping the whole house myself.
No issues with the soldering. I can take my time with it also.

I talked to a plumber this who frequents our shop and he stands by copper, type L of course, just on the antimicrobial aspect alone. I asked him if he's ever seen a leak from PEX and he hasn't but he does mostly commercial work.

PEX has been in use in houses in the Toronto area for about 20 years now. I have never heard of rodents eating through it but we are slowly but surely getting an increase in the rat population in the city. I have also not heard of any leaks from neighbors or friends.

I'm sure our water is non acidic. How could it be? It's from the Great Lakes.

Has anyone noticed a plastic water taste from PEX systems?
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:02 PM   #44
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[QUOTE=123pugsy;1563441]Thanks.

I will be piping the whole house myself.
No issues with the soldering. I can take my time with it also.

I talked to a plumber this who frequents our shop and he stands by copper, type L of course, just on the antimicrobial aspect alone. I asked him if he's ever seen a leak from PEX and he hasn't but he does mostly commercial work.

PEX has been in use in houses in the Toronto area for about 20 years now. I have never heard of rodents eating through it but we are slowly but surely getting an increase in the rat population in the city. I have also not heard of any leaks from neighbors or friends.

I'm sure our water is non acidic. How could it be? It's from the Great Lakes.

Has anyone noticed a plastic water taste from PEX systems?[/QUOTE..that was one of the points i was concerned with before i switched from copper ...no complaints on taste either..
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:09 PM   #45
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I'm sure our water is non acidic. How could it be? It's from the Great Lakes.
Drinking water chemistry is complicated. It's very commonly acidic. This is no big deal or anything to be scared about. We are talking about a pH of about 6.5. Milk is 6.2, orange juice is 3.5, and lemon juice is about 2. So it's nothing you'd actually notice day to day.

Also, public water supplies are usually chlorinated, and haloacetic acids are a typical byproduct. No big deal, just things that tend to make your water slightly acidic. It's also possible to have "hard water" in some areas that actually has pH higher than 7. Groundwater from areas in Saskatchewan and Manitoba often have hard water. Some river systems of the Great Lakes do too - check with your local water utility to find out.

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Has anyone noticed a plastic water taste from PEX systems?
Never tasted it, never heard of it.
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