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Old 12-09-2016, 11:57 AM   #1
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Shower Tile Floor replacement


Hi there....


I want to replace this ugly shower tile flooring. Can I simply install new tile on top of the existing tile or should I remove the current tile and adhesive and start from scratch?


I've heard conflicting opinions so any help would be appreciated.


I'm only looking to do the floor. Even though I don't like the blue wall tiles my wife doesn't mind them so it's not worth making this a huge job.


Thanks for your help
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Old 12-09-2016, 12:29 PM   #2
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


If you put new right on top, you are going to need to raise the drain to the correct height, because if left where it is, it's too easy for water to penetrate under the new, and cause it to separate.

I think that I would get a new shower pan and remove the current drain cover, glue the new shower pan, down tight to the old, with PL Construction adhesive, spread the adhesive out thin, and press the new pan down tight.

Then tile the new pan to what suits yourself.


ED
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Old 12-09-2016, 03:29 PM   #3
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


When you say glue the new pan down to the old, do you mean the old/existing tile?
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:37 PM   #4
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Yes exactly, Using the PL adhesive, in a thin concentric circles around the drain hole, spread the adhesive with a plastic putty knife / ice scraper / credit card / or similar will give you several seals between the old tile and new pan.

Then you might need to caulk the edge of the pan and tile to keep runoff out there, but then it is ready to tile in your choice of materials.


ED
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:52 PM   #5
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
Yes exactly, Using the PL adhesive, in a thin concentric circles around the drain hole, spread the adhesive with a plastic putty knife / ice scraper / credit card / or similar will give you several seals between the old tile and new pan.

Then you might need to caulk the edge of the pan and tile to keep runoff out there, but then it is ready to tile in your choice of materials.


ED
Two concerns I have with this.....

1) finding a perfect sized pan with the drain cut out in the right spot, and
2) having to cover up the sides of the pan with tile.

Right now the tile floor meets the tile walls but with the shower pan it would be different as the sides of the pan would have to be addressed. I also see this being a potential issue underneath the shower door where there is already a small 'step'
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:11 PM   #6
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Ed,

Please forgive me for yelling at you, but you are kinda mistaken on how a shower is built and how to repair one. Having said that.........You are a very valuable member here, so keep helping, just not so much when it comes to tilework in wet areas at least.

Harpua,

Give those tiles a good washing and rinse, then install new tiles right on top using a premium modified thinset mortar. There is no need to do anything special other than good tiling techniques. Ask if you're not sure about anything.

Of course you'll want to raise the strainer as Ed suggested. Find one of these; It's called Extend O Drain.https://www.amazon.com/Extendo-O-Dra...1328270&sr=8-1 Lowes & HD have them too. The 3 ⅜" screw center to center is the most common.

Jaz
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:26 PM   #7
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Ed,

Please forgive me for yelling at you, but you are kinda mistaken on how a shower is built and how to repair one. Having said that.........You are a very valuable member here, so keep helping, just not so much when it comes to tilework in wet areas at least.

Harpua,

Give those tiles a good washing and rinse, then install new tiles right on top using a premium modified thinset mortar. There is no need to do anything special other than good tiling techniques. Ask if you're not sure about anything.

Of course you'll want to raise the strainer as Ed suggested. Find one of these; It's called Extend O Drain.https://www.amazon.com/Extendo-O-Dra...1328270&sr=8-1 Lowes & HD have them too. The 3 ⅜" screw center to center is the most common.

Jaz
Jaz,

Thanks for your help. What size tiles do you suggest for this small space (about 30 in x 30 in)?

Do I have to worry about water getting between the existing tiles and new ones?
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Old 12-09-2016, 08:08 PM   #8
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Harpua,

The ideal size, and most popular is about 2x2", but you can go a little bigger if the floor wasn't "dished" too much. Of course you can go smaller if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua
Do I have to worry about water getting between the existing tiles and new ones?
No need to worry. Shower water will get through the new tiles and will get the thinset wet, then through the old tiles and soak into the deck mud underneath. Your base has a shower pan under it which catches any excess and if built correctly diverts it to the weep holes built into the drain. Can get technical without a sketch, so study the sketch..... Got Q's?

Jaz
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:35 PM   #9
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Ed,

Please forgive me for yelling at you, but you are kinda mistaken on how a shower is built and how to repair one. Having said that.........You are a very valuable member here, so keep helping, just not so much when it comes to tilework in wet areas at least.

Harpua,

Give those tiles a good washing and rinse, then install new tiles right on top using a premium modified thinset mortar. There is no need to do anything special other than good tiling techniques. Ask if you're not sure about anything.

Of course you'll want to raise the strainer as Ed suggested. Find one of these; It's called Extend O Drain.https://www.amazon.com/Extendo-O-Dra...1328270&sr=8-1 Lowes & HD have them too. The 3 ⅜" screw center to center is the most common.

Jaz
No problem.

I was trying to think of how to do what that Extendo-drain thing does, Without knowing that one existed.


I still kinda think that my idea would work, but I agree that it is very complicated.

And the KISS rule should apply here.


ED
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Old 12-10-2016, 08:32 AM   #10
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Ed,

Please forgive me for yelling at you, but you are kinda mistaken on how a shower is built and how to repair one. Having said that.........You are a very valuable member here, so keep helping, just not so much when it comes to tilework in wet areas at least.

Harpua,

Give those tiles a good washing and rinse, then install new tiles right on top using a premium modified thinset mortar. There is no need to do anything special other than good tiling techniques. Ask if you're not sure about anything.

Of course you'll want to raise the strainer as Ed suggested. Find one of these; It's called Extend O Drain.https://www.amazon.com/Extendo-O-Dra...1328270&sr=8-1 Lowes & HD have them too. The 3 ⅜" screw center to center is the most common.

Jaz
Ed,

Thanks again for the advice here. A couple more questions....

1) The current floor isn't 100% level/smooth (and I'm not talking about the gentle slope from the walls to the drain)...it's a bit 'wavy' around the drain in one section. Very subtle and not the end of the world but something that I would like to address. Can I fix this in one step by just applying a little more thinset in those low spots? Or is this a two step process where I apply thinset in those low areas only to smooth it out, let that dry and from a solid base, and then apply a new layer of thinset on the entire floor to set the tiles into (i.e. there would be two layers of thinset where the low spots currently are)?

2) The drain. I would be looking to install a drain that's set in a square, like this one (https://www.amazon.com/LASCO-Simpati...4J9738H5CMTKAJ) in the proper size, in order to make it easier to cut the tile in straight lines around it, rather than cutting curves into the tile.

The current dimensions of my drain are as follows:
Diameter of 'outer ring': 3 7/8"
Diameter of inner ring: 3 3/16"
Distance between screws: 2 5/8"

Do I need to remove the outer ring, or can I leave that in place and simply remove the screws and inner ring, install the extend o drain, then set the new square drain?

3) Does the extendo-drain need to fit inside the outer ring or can it sit on top of the existing outer ring? I found this one that would fit the screw holes ( https://www.amazon.com/Extendo-O-Dra...+drain+2+5%2F8) but since the outside diameter is 3 1/4" in my not fit inside my current outer ring.

Thanks again!

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Old 12-10-2016, 09:14 AM   #11
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


I think that you can do it either way that you propose, even out the wavy section, then install new tile, or add more thinset in the low spots as you tile.

Whichever you prefer.

Remember KISS. ( Keep It Simple Sir).

As for how and which drain to use I am going to defer to JAZ, as he is the more experienced tiler, And knew about the extendo- drain.


I was trying to re-invent something that already existed.


ED
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:56 AM   #12
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


If the dip is more than ⅛" out of plane, you'll want to make it a two step fix. Do NOT apply too much thinset to raise the tiles as you'll create a mess. Anything under about ⅛" should/might be left alone as just installing new a slightly larger tiles should partially fix the problem.

As for the drain grate.....I've used the Extend O Drain many times but never to convert to square. The last ten years I only did Kerdi Drains, so there was no issue and is a completely different animal. I guess I'd have to have one in hand to decide. The only important part is the screw-to-screw measurement.

Jaz
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:10 AM   #13
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


Would this be the correct way to lay out the tiles if I use 2" x 2" on 12" x 12" mesh 'sheets'?

The blue square in the middle represents a 5'3/4" square drain. I would need a little extra grout on the right side of the drain to make it flush with the tiles since 3 tiles would be approx 6 inches.

Shower floor width (left to right) is 30-3/4"
Shower floor depth (top to bottom) is 28"

Exact center of drain is 10-1/4" from top, 15" from left.

Thanks again
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:52 AM   #14
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


It looks like the best solution, just spread to eliminate that " on the right.

The only square grate I used was the Kerdi Drain, which is 4" and also adjustable (slide all ways).

Be careful of the measurement of the floor since it'll be a bit longer near the drain than towards the corners.

Jaz
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:59 AM   #15
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Re: Shower Tile Floor replacement


I too would just expand the grout lines a bit to accommodate the extra 1/4 inch.

You have at least 10 lines to spread it out over. And 1/4 inch divided by ten equals a whopping 1/40 th of an inch. So a 5/16 th space instead of 1/4 will be easier.


You might be able to rid yourself of those pesky little cuts on the side if you go 3/8 or so for the grout lines , you need to do more figuring to be sure.


ED
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