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Old 02-18-2014, 05:18 PM   #31
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Schluter has a new product due out in March. Ditra heat. Ditra-heat has a different shape pattern to it that allows their thin heat cables to be placed in it then thinset over and tiled in one step. Goes down like the current ditra. Might want to check it out.
www.schluter.com/ditra-heat/index.html
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
1. The thicker the better. I said 1/2" IF........ re-read above.

2. Maybe, maybe not, depends which method you choose and what the warming directions have to say.

a. If you go with concrete backers, yes, thin set, then backer, fasteners, tape etc.......
b. If you go with Ditra, you install the warming mat/wires according to their directions, (either thin set or most likely SLC) then Ditra.

No they don't. The sentence is referring to the subfloor. Your subfloor is the planks. You are installing an "underlayment", not a subfloor.

Jaz
Very helpful thank you. I am getting a clearer picture of what needs to be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawkmph View Post
Schluter has a new product due out in March. Ditra heat. Ditra-heat has a different shape pattern to it that allows their thin heat cables to be placed in it then thinset over and tiled in one step. Goes down like the current ditra. Might want to check it out.
www.schluter.com/ditra-heat/index.html
Mike Hawkins
Good to know, but I have my floor warming mats already.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:44 PM   #33
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That Ditra heat is gonna be very popular. Damn, why didn't I think of that?

I saw it a few months ago. Waiting to get some and evaluating it's value.

But It's from Schluter. It'll be on the expensive side, but worth every penny.

Jaz
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:09 PM   #34
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Update on situation. Hopefully this weekend will remove the hardibacker and check the subfloor. Will get 1/2" plywood and higher T&G.

How should the plywood be attached to the subfloor? Any specific thinset I should be using? I have Versabond_Thinset.

Plan is to use 1/4" hardibacker over plywood.

Steps: (Please let me know if anything is incorrect or steps were skipped)

1. Lay down plywood

2. Wet plywood with sponge dipped in regular water

3. Apply thinset on a section, leveling out flat and then creating ridges with trowel

4. Lay hardibacker over thinset, keep 1/8" gap between boards, lay in brick pattern. Seams should not line up.

5. Immediately fasten HardieBacker sheets with screws every 8'' around the perimeter and all supporting studs. Keep fasteners between 3/8'' and 3/4'' from sheet edges and 2'' in from sheet corners.

6. Apply 2" alkali-resistant glass fiber tape. Thinset over tape.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:23 PM   #35
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Still waiting on the info for the joists and subfloor system.

The new ply is fastened to the subfloor only not the joists using 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" flooring screws, or ring shank flooring nails.

Versabond is decent low cost modified thin set for the backer and for the tiles.

1. It doesn't have to be t&g since there's a subfloor underneath. Evaluate the floor for flatness before you begin in case it's way off.

2. Why? Where did you read that? That step is in the next phase, installing the tiles.

3. There's really no need to "burn" the thin set to the ply in this step. Do that when installing tiles though.

4. Sounds good.

5. Follow the fastener pattern embossed on the Hardie. How about the fasteners in the field of the sheet? What do you mean by;
Quote:
every 8'' around the perimeter and all supporting studs.
?

6. Yes, make sure you don't create speed-bumps. Use a 6" flex putty knife when placing the thin set over tape.

* Now evaluate the floor for flatness as necessary, then install the warming mats per directions and make flat with SLC as necessary.

The easy part, (the tiles) are next.

Jaz
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Last edited by JazMan; 02-20-2014 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:52 PM   #36
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I will try to get joists and subfloor system information tomorrow If I get the day off.

2. Using a sponge on plywood saw it on youtube...so wood doesnt suck up all the water from the thinset?

5. From the hardie backer website FAQ.

6. Good advice I will pick one up.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Using a sponge on plywood saw it on youtube...so wood doesnt suck up all the water from the thinset?
2. Sponging or misting the Hardie is recommended, (cuz it really sucks and one reason I do not prefer it), plywood should be dry. You're supposed to mix the thin set a bit thinner than normal anyway. Please send me the link to that You Tube video.

5. I'm questioning this part;
Quote:
............. and all supporting studs.
First of all, there are no studs in the floor framing, but sounds like you're saying to fasten to the joists which is not right. Plus it's not in the Hardie FAQ I saw. Send link.

Jaz
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
2. Sponging or misting the Hardie is recommended, (cuz it really sucks and one reason I do not prefer it), plywood should be dry. You're supposed to mix the thin set a bit thinner than normal anyway. Please send me the link to that You Tube video.

5. I'm questioning this part;

First of all, there are no studs in the floor framing, but sounds like you're saying to fasten to the joists which is not right. Plus it's not in the Hardie FAQ I saw. Send link.

Jaz
Plywood dampening with sponge, I did see it, but cannot find the video at the moment.

FAQ_Link
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardieinstallationguide
4 Prep for flooring (Figure 4)

Prior to setting the tile, fill all joints with the same thinset mortar planned to set the tiles.
Embed 2in. wide high-strength alkali-resistant glass fiber tape in the mortar and level.
Wipe HardieBacker boards with wet sponge
They recommend you wipe with damp sponge just before you spread the thin set to install the tiles.

Jaz
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:02 AM   #40
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Update: Hardibacker removed.

Subfloor is 1 by 8 and each subfloor plank is 3/4" thick. Some of the planks are 7 3/8" wide and 7 3/16" wide, it varies. The subfloor feels solid.

Next step is to buy the plywood. Any idea what CDX plywood? I was at home depot yesterday and did not see much selection.

Not sure about the plywood to subfloor application. Use liquid nails and screw in every 6 inches? Brick pattern of course.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:59 AM   #41
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Badsa,
I would recommend you upgrade your plywood selection. I usually get BC grade. It has one pretty good side and very few voids. Cdx is pretty lousy anymore. I still use it for exterior wall and roof sheathing, but don't use it inside for floors. If there is something better, I'll defer to Jazman for his opinion.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:14 PM   #42
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Badsha took my invitation and asked me to call him to discuss his project with enthuses on the plywood, since that's the stage he's at now.

When I called back he had already purchased the ply and the "contractor" had begun installing it.

Instead of underlayment grade ply, he did what many people do and bought the "cheapo" stuff. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...specifications So, he ended up with CDX which in the specs clearly says it's for "Framing & Sheathing". This is not the homeowner's fault, except that he hired a hack to do the work. I wonder how much he saved?

I was gonna recommend he buy 5/8" (actually 19/32), RigidFloor underlayment. Ooops, too late. Plus who knows if the orange vest place even carries the right plywood, plus it would be more $$$. Is this a sure failure? Probably not, but................

His genius contractor, (who is not registered, is unlicensed etc.) was gluing the 15/32" sheathing to the planks with construction adhesive and using 2.5" nails to fasten the panels. Both of those steps are wrong as many of you know. I corrected those steps and reminded him to tell the "expert" to leave 1/8" gap between sheets and 1/4" or so at the perimeter.

That's all I know for now. I hope Badsha returns to tell us more.

Jaz
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:40 PM   #43
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I know the nailing is wrong, but feel dumb for not knowing why the gluing is wrong. Is it an expansion/contraction issue? My house is a concrete slab so this isn't an issue I have to worry about, just want to be educated. Thanks Jaz.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:54 PM   #44
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Gluing with beads of adhesive is not recommend because the beads create slight high spots which means there will be air gaps/voids where there is no adhesive. I know it's very minor, maybe a few thousands of an inch, but in time the traffic can cause the fasteners to loosen. Even if not, there will be a slight amount of deflection.

The panels will not walk away with just nails/screws. The only type of gluing that would be helpful is a lamination using wood glue spread 100%. That's hard to do and totally unnecessary. Plus, the top layer of ply will at a later date need to be removed in decorating. Removing glued underlayment from the subfloor is a royal PITA!.

Jaz
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:16 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Badsha took my invitation and asked me to call him to discuss his project with enthuses on the plywood, since that's the stage he's at now.

When I called back he had already purchased the ply and the "contractor" had begun installing it.

Instead of underlayment grade ply, he did what many people do and bought the "cheapo" stuff. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...specifications So, he ended up with CDX which in the specs clearly says it's for "Framing & Sheathing". This is not the homeowner's fault, except that he hired a hack to do the work. I wonder how much he saved?

I was gonna recommend he buy 5/8" (actually 19/32), RigidFloor underlayment. Ooops, too late. Plus who knows if the orange vest place even carries the right plywood, plus it would be more $$$. Is this a sure failure? Probably not, but................

His genius contractor, (who is not registered, is unlicensed etc.) was gluing the 15/32" sheathing to the planks with construction adhesive and using 2.5" nails to fasten the panels. Both of those steps are wrong as many of you know. I corrected those steps and reminded him to tell the "expert" to leave 1/8" gap between sheets and 1/4" or so at the perimeter.

That's all I know for now. I hope Badsha returns to tell us more.

Jaz
I went to home depot and looked around for the plywood and I did not really see many options. The only plywood more expensive than what I bought was smooth and $30 a piece. Not sure what brand it was.

I didn't purchase 19/32 because it was too thick. I wasnt in this to save money, why would i rip out the original hardibacker if that is what I going for? I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had. May be I should have shopped around for more contractors, but its a moot point now.

I still dont know why nailing down plywood was wrong. I told the contractor to not nail into the joists. He did reinforce with screws every 6".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jb1234 View Post
I know the nailing is wrong, but feel dumb for not knowing why the gluing is wrong. Is it an expansion/contraction issue? My house is a concrete slab so this isn't an issue I have to worry about, just want to be educated. Thanks Jaz.
The plywood is down + 1/4" hardibacker down with thinset between the plywood and hardibacker. Hardibacker was fastened with 1.25" hardibacker screws.

Each hardibacker seam was covered with alkali resistant tape and covered with thinset.

Floor warming mats were installed over the hardibacker. Tiling will most likely start tomorrow. I think I am in a much better position than I was previously with no plywood under the 1/2" hardibacker.

Last edited by badsha; 02-23-2014 at 10:28 PM.
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