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Old 04-22-2015, 08:38 AM   #16
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That test is the industry standard developed by engineers.
Industry standard or not by the most intelligent people on earth, it needs to be in the joke section for the reason given.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:57 AM   #17
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The calcium test is indeed one of the industry standards and has been used for many years. However, all it can do is give you an indication of what is going on right now. It helps us understand and then decide if you think It'll be smart to continue. No guarantees. The conditions can/will change in 6 months.

The better test is a "probe" test, (forgot the name right now). This is much more accurate, but not usually done for small jobs cuz of the $$$. Holes are drilled into the floor, then readings are taken and analyzed. Homeowners and small property owners don't want to pay for this.

Don,

I am not questioning the underlayment one bit. However I wish I could say the same for the vinyl planks. Per your info the underlayment manufacturer says the min. thickness should be 8mm and it should be laminate or engineered hardwood. Both a very stiff, unlike the thinner vinyl. That could be a problem and you are on your own. You even mentioned that yourself quoting the manufacturer with words like "may" etc. That is not an endorsement to proceed, but they still want you to buy their product. I recommend you think it over again.

Jaz
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
The calcium test is indeed one of the industry standards and has been used for many years. However, all it can do is give you an indication of what is going on right now. It helps us understand and then decide if you think It'll be smart to continue. No guarantees. The conditions can/will change in 6 months.

The better test is a "probe" test, (forgot the name right now). This is much more accurate, but not usually done for small jobs cuz of the $$$. Holes are drilled into the floor, then readings are taken and analyzed. Homeowners and small property owners don't want to pay for this.

Don,

I am not questioning the underlayment one bit. However I wish I could say the same for the vinyl planks. Per your info the underlayment manufacturer says the min. thickness should be 8mm and it should be laminate or engineered hardwood. Both a very stiff, unlike the thinner vinyl. That could be a problem and you are on your own. You even mentioned that yourself quoting the manufacturer with words like "may" etc. That is not an endorsement to proceed, but they still want you to buy their product. I recommend you think it over again.

Jaz
JazMan,

I did a little more research and even called the manufacturers and you are correct, they don't advise this install. I've cancelled the order of the vinyl and will pick out some engineered flooring instead.

Any recommendations on who makes a good quality engineered floor? Seems like there are a lot out there these days.

Don
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:38 PM   #19
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Ubel you cancelled your order because you could use an underlayment?
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:12 PM   #20
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"After 72 hours the calcium hydroxide containers are removed and weighed again. The excess weight will tell you how much moisture the crystals absorbed from evaporation out of the concrete."
************************************************** *

That test is surely a joke. How much moisture was in the AIR that was trapped under the plastic with the very dry crystals?

To test with this theory, expose the crystals to the basement atmosphere air a few days then do the plastic test to see how much moisture was gained.
Senior Sitizen:

There are problems with every kind of diagnostic testing. In this case, it's the homeowner who picks the three spots per 1000 sq ft of concrete floor to test. Not all three spots are going to have the same evaporation rate, so if he picked different spots, the results could be different too. Also, snow melts in the spring, and so, depending on the condition of the vapour barrier (if any) under the concrete, the amount of evaporation would be expected to be highest in the spring and vary throughout the year.

Still, the bottom line here is that at the end of the day, SOME rough idea of how much water is evaporating from the concrete is better than no idea at all. That much I think we can agree on.
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:28 PM   #21
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Don,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
I did a little more research and even called the manufacturers and you are correct, they don't advise this install.
Of course. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did.......................

I don't know much about those underlayments, but I knew you were going down the wrong road.

I haven't bought engineered in 15 years. I think I used Hartco and Mannington. I have no clue what to recommend, I'm sure there's plenty nice ones. You obviously wanna stall with that underlayment. There's many others too.

Someone will come along that knows engineered and laminates soon I hope.

Be sure to do everything the wood manufacturer says in regards to moisture testing and maintenance levels.

Jaz
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:21 AM   #22
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I would advice you to use epoxy floors in the basement flooring. And the color must be dark for example, brown or dark blue.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:00 AM   #23
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I would advice you to use epoxy floors in the basement flooring. And the color must be dark for example, brown or dark blue.
Why would you want a dark color in an area that is normally somewhat naturally dark?
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:07 AM   #24
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Why would you want a dark color in an area that is normally somewhat naturally dark?
I don't know his reasons, though I want dark so the wife won't see every spec of dust and vacuum every other day.
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:50 AM   #25
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So I was framing my basement the other day and was removing some stick & peel tile that was there from before and noticed that when I picked up a tile, I saw a darking looking slab under the tile. I came back the next day and it faded a lot, so it looks like that part of the basement has a little more moister than the other part. I did some more research and with the Allure ultra lock and click product it suggests with a moister content below 5% use 6mil poly and for moister above 5% use a product like drycore. Any suggestions?
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:38 AM   #26
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I'd say it's more than a little moister than the other part. More like a lot more.

I have no clue what they mean by 5%. I'll have to go read about it. Where would you put the 6 mil? What will happen to the excess moisture trapped under the plastic? Science experiment?

Allure & Dricore....... do they even go together? Dricore and laminate or engineered or carpet yes.

Jaz
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:01 PM   #27
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I'd say it's more than a little moister than the other part. More like a lot more.

I have no clue what they mean by 5%. I'll have to go read about it. Where would you put the 6 mil? What will happen to the excess moisture trapped under the plastic? Science experiment?

Allure & Dricore....... do they even go together? Dricore and laminate or engineered or carpet yes.

Jaz
I was reading this:
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...36a8734dbb.pdf

So I went out and bought a moister meter at lowes for $40 that uses magic w/o having to piece the object. Anyway I tested the flooring in different areas and found the following:
58 65 88 93
72 75 94 82

Oddly enough the place I was planning on refinishing is on the high area of the moister content. My "shop" is at the lowest.

I did repeated tests and found some in different areas as low as 40's and some as high as 100% Even in the same foot I could see a difference in 10-20%. I am not sure if it was detecting something on the surface, so I did repeated tests in the same area looking for a consistent number. I measured some of my block foundation and it was high 30's at top and high 80's towards the bottom.

While I was doing this I switched the scale to softwood and tested some studs I recently installed and they were at 7%. I switched the scale to hardwood and I tested a box made of cherry I built and it was at 2%.

The air relative humidity is 50%. So to be honest I have no idea what to do. The ground gets very wet around this time of year and I will do some regarding.
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:14 PM   #28
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My concern is the chinese just magically took you for 40 bucks and most of the tax went to a politician to vacation in the bahamas.
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:11 PM   #29
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I don't know how your reading relate to the type of meter in the instructions.

Looks to me like you have a wet basement, probably standing water just under the slab.

We've talked about the proper tests for moisture before.

Those instruction are very simple and unbelievably uninformative, which is exactly what the orange place wants. After all, they want you to buy the stuff and if something bad happens in a few years, tough chit!

Jaz
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:20 AM   #30
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I did do a plastic test before and didn't have moisture, though when I picked up a stick and peel tile that had been there for over a decade, there was some moisture. So I am wondering what exactly should I do at this point? It looks like I have a high water table right now from all the snow melt and rain. Though we have no/never had standing water anywhere as the perforated perimeter drain seems to be doing it's job. I only see some wet spots on the lowest blocks. So now that I have established I have a moister issue, I am wondering how can I best deal with it? The real humidity in the air is ~50% or less with 2 dehumidifiers.
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