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Old 03-25-2016, 11:14 AM   #1
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Floor Install Gone Bad


I recently had a kitchen floor installed. Unfortunately I was out of town and not available to watch. I came home to find that my new kitchen floor (porcelain) was 2-1/2 inches higher than my adjoining dining room. I now have what equates to a huge step.

Any thoughts on how to ease this transition?

I am telling them they need to rip it up. the kitchen has two other doorways to other rooms - The kitchen floor at these points 1-3/8 and 1-5/8 higher. I'm guessing the right thing to have them do is lower everything by 1-5/8 to try to minimize the different levels

any thoughts, comments?


Thank You

Bruce
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:19 AM   #2
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


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I recently had a kitchen floor installed. Unfortunately I was out of town and not available to watch. I came home to find that my new kitchen floor (porcelain) was 2-1/2 inches higher than my adjoining dining room. I now have what equates to a huge step.

Any thoughts on how to ease this transition?

I am telling them they need to rip it up. the kitchen has two other doorways to other rooms - The kitchen floor at these points 1-3/8 and 1-5/8 higher. I'm guessing the right thing to have them do is lower everything by 1-5/8 to try to minimize the different levels

any thoughts, comments?


Thank You

Bruce
you got a mud job, was it discussed before the job was done, you cant lower a mud job, you need the thickness so the tile doesnt crack and flex..how did you expect the tile to be put down? make some wooden saddles for those openings
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:41 AM   #3
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


thank you for the reply. It was not discussed. What would be the alternative?

Unfortunately I did not ask the contractor beforehand. It came up in conversation with a different contractor who said since he was removing the existing 3 floors that it should be the same or slightly lower. Should this have been done with a backer board subfloor (forgive my ignorance if this makes no sense)?

The room is a small 12x12 kitchen. What should the overall thickness of the tile floor?

Do you have any experience with a 2-1/2" gap? It seams to me we'd be constantly tripping.

Thanks.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:01 PM   #4
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


That is a mess----

I don't have time to go into all the details--but that should be removed and done properly.

Total floor thickness above the floor joists--3/4" subfloor--perhaps another 1/2" plywood--then 1/4" backer board and tile---'

I have a suspicion that those fellows did not remove the old layers of flooring--

What made you choose those
'contractors' over the one that said the fllor would be the same height as surrounding rooms?
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:21 PM   #5
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


Were the floors level before? With oh'mikes figures, you could gain 1 1/2".
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:13 AM   #6
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


I don't know who would do a job like that and not stop and think this just ain't right.. But what does the contract say? Did it say they would remove the 3 layers of old flooring and match the new height to existing?
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:27 AM   #7
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


Being we don't know the original condition we have no clue how to correct the situation as the contractor involvement.

Regardless, discussion or no discussion was not the way to determine the work to be done. Discussions don't usually prevail in small claims court but written records prevail.
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:19 AM   #8
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


Thanks for all the replies. My wife is really upset (her first new kitchen in 25 years).

I don't know how level or even the existing floor was (it was never an issue).

From what I can tell there were three floors down. Looking at the debris it appears they ripped them all up. Two sheet vinyl or linoleum and one poured floor. There was also a layer of thin plywood sandwiched in.

The tiles are 3/8" so using oh'mikes #'s thats 1/2 + 1/4 + 3/8 or 1-1/8 above the 3/4 plywood. the adjacent rooms are the house's original hardwood floors. If I assume the hardwood to be say 3/4" thick (?), then the new floor should be only about 3/8" higher.

The contract didn't specify anything about the height above the the adjacent floors...I'm not an expert but would think that there would be some implied quality standards (?), otherwise the contract would be endless (e.g. would I have to specify how many degrees of levelness? or gap deviations between the tiles?...)

If they were to use backer board, can the tiles (they are 36x18) be put right over the backer board or is there some mud that has to go down, and if so how thick would the mud be?

Finally - any thoughts about living with a 2-1/2" gap? Have any of you had a project with such a large gap?

FYI - I am based in Long Island NY if anyone wants to come bid a potential floor rip & replace.

At this time the owner of the company is going to come down after the holiday to look first hand.

Happy Holidays.

regards
Bruce
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Old 03-26-2016, 05:46 PM   #9
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


You need mud on both sides of the backer board, but not that thick.
Let us know what you find out.
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Old 03-26-2016, 05:54 PM   #10
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


The backer only provides a proper bond between the tile and the plywood floor.
1/4" Durrock is the standard.

There are even plastic membrane types that are only 1/8" thick---

These installers did something strange---how they got the floor so thick is a mystery.

Also--why did they leave the edges exposed?
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:23 PM   #11
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


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Originally Posted by BW56 View Post
Finally - any thoughts about living with a 2-1/2" gap? Have any of you had a project with such a large gap?


2 1/2" - Definitely not. Major trip hazard. Its high enough to catch the tow often but low enough that when the eyes look across the room while walking
it gets missed. If I had to live with it, I would want a 12 to 16" transition ramp.
Good luck with a remedy.
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:53 PM   #12
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


I recently put down porcelain tile on top of an old floor and it was not even close to 2 1/2". I'm curious what the owner has to say.
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Old 03-27-2016, 05:29 AM   #13
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


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I'm curious what the owner has to say.

You might try reading all the post starting at #1
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:08 AM   #14
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


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Originally Posted by BW56 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. My wife is really upset (her first new kitchen in 25 years).

I don't know how level or even the existing floor was (it was never an issue).

From what I can tell there were three floors down. Looking at the debris it appears they ripped them all up. Two sheet vinyl or linoleum and one poured floor. There was also a layer of thin plywood sandwiched in.

The tiles are 3/8" so using oh'mikes #'s thats 1/2 + 1/4 + 3/8 or 1-1/8 above the 3/4 plywood. the adjacent rooms are the house's original hardwood floors. If I assume the hardwood to be say 3/4" thick (?), then the new floor should be only about 3/8" higher.

The contract didn't specify anything about the height above the the adjacent floors...I'm not an expert but would think that there would be some implied quality standards (?), otherwise the contract would be endless (e.g. would I have to specify how many degrees of levelness? or gap deviations between the tiles?...)

If they were to use backer board, can the tiles (they are 36x18) be put right over the backer board or is there some mud that has to go down, and if so how thick would the mud be?

Finally - any thoughts about living with a 2-1/2" gap? Have any of you had a project with such a large gap?

FYI - I am based in Long Island NY if anyone wants to come bid a potential floor rip & replace.

At this time the owner of the company is going to come down after the holiday to look first hand.

Happy Holidays.

regards
Bruce
tiles that size need to be set in a mud base to prevent cracking,the mud should be about 1 1/2 thick, and to level the floor it gets thicker as the floor dips... why such big tiles in a small kitchen?
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:13 AM   #15
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Re: Floor Install Gone Bad


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tiles that size need to be set in a mud base to prevent cracking,the mud should be about 1 1/2 thick, and to level the floor it gets thicker as the floor dips... why such big tiles in a small kitchen?
No large tiles do not need to be set into a mud bed---
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