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-   -   3/4" Pre-finished Hickory + OSB = staple or cleat? (https://www.diychatroom.com/f5/3-4-pre-finished-hickory-osb-staple-cleat-111224/)

bakerzdosen 07-18-2011 08:01 PM

3/4" Pre-finished Hickory + OSB = staple or cleat?
 
OK, so sanity check: In reading through LOTS of forums and haven't found a definitive answer for this.

In a nutshell, I'm laying around 600sq ft of pre-finished hickory over OSB (circa 1992) and was wondering which is the lesser of two evils. It seems like (at least over on contractor talk) many pro's move to cleats when laying down a hard wood like hickory. However, staples seem to have a MUCH better time holding on to OSB.

I realize that the "right" thing to do is to put down (at least) 1/2" of plywood over the OSB and then use cleats. However, after seriously looking into that, it just isn't going to work in this situation.

So, I'm leaning towards the occasional tongue break and staples (I'll just have to adjust the psi carefully to help mitigate that.)

Any overwhelming evidence (or opinions) that I should go with cleats?

DannyT 07-18-2011 11:13 PM

ive did 3 rooms over OSB with brazillian tigerwood which is 2160 on the hardness scale with staples and had no problem other then the ocasional split tongue. the scale i was looking at had hickory at 1820. i would think the cleats being larger than the staples would split the tongues more. the nailer i used was a freeman that set the staples perfect at 60 lbs on the compressor.

bakerzdosen 07-19-2011 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyT (Post 689101)
ive did 3 rooms over OSB with brazillian tigerwood which is 2160 on the hardness scale with staples and had no problem other then the ocasional split tongue. the scale i was looking at had hickory at 1820. i would think the cleats being larger than the staples would split the tongues more. the nailer i used was a freeman that set the staples perfect at 60 lbs on the compressor.

Surprisingly, that's the first direct answer I've seen to the above question or something similar. Thanks. I'm feeling more secure about my decision (or where I'm leaning) now.

oh'mike 07-19-2011 06:01 AM

I second the staples---My floor guy swears by them---He said he's torn out enough hardwood in his life to know that the staples hold better than the cleats.

That being said---I've used both and we are really splitting hairs here.
Either work very well.

jimqpublic 07-19-2011 05:08 PM

I note that blind fastener tables say 8" to 10" spacing. Do the pros snap lines over the joists and drive fasteners right through? (plus additional fasteners between the joists for 8" spacing). It seems that half the fasteners going all the way into the house structure would make a very stiff, long lasting floor. (Obviously you would need 2" nails or staples to get any meaningful purchase into the joist).

oh'mike 07-19-2011 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimqpublic (Post 689548)
Would it help to snap chalklines on the joist centerlines and then use 2" fasteners over the joists? (plus additional fasteners between the joists for 8" spacing). It seems that half the fasteners going all the way into the house structure would make a very stiff, long lasting floor. The 3/4" flooring is certainly very stiff on its own compared to other flooring options that spec the same subfloor.

I've never seen a need or any benefit to finding and nailing into the floor joists.

The floors work well just nailed or stapled into the subfloor.

jimqpublic 07-19-2011 05:27 PM

Thanks Mike. You were replying to my post while I was editing it to be more of a question about what works rather than idle speculation.

Jim
Long Beach, CA

bakerzdosen 07-20-2011 02:11 AM

Thanks folks. Picking up an miiifs tomorrow.

liquidvw 07-22-2011 02:35 PM

I just finished my 4th room in my house where the sub floor is OSB. I'm using 3/4" pre finished red oak and staples have worked really well for me.

bakerzdosen 08-01-2011 04:58 PM

Well, just an update for posterity...

So far, so good with the MIIIFS and the 3/4" hickory. Yes, I've had a few split tongues, but not nearly as many as I would have expected. I think I'm roughly 300 sq ft into this and have probably had 5 split tongues. I've probably had that many or more mis-fires of the gun where I mis-hit or tapped the strike area too softly causing the staple to only go 1/3 of the way in.

The bigger problem has actually been crumpled staples (I don't know how else to describe them). I've probably had 15 or so of those - and they get annoying FAST. Of course, now that I've kind of gotten the hang of removing those staples (a combination of a chisel, hammer, nail puller, and pliers) it's not nearly as devastating as it was the first times.

Regardless, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have an issue using a stapler over cleats with hickory. True, I think I'd still choose cleats if I had plywood underneath, but all in all, it's going well.

Thanks.

Dudester60 09-11-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakerzdosen (Post 698295)

Of course, now that I've kind of gotten the hang of removing those staples (a combination of a chisel, hammer, nail puller, and pliers) it's not nearly as devastating as it was the first times.

I'm in no way a hardwood floor expert, but I found using a good pair of wire cutters works great for those staples that go in partially due to misfire etc.
Using the wire cutters, I simply cut the staple on each side flush with the the tongue of the board, leaving whatever ever is left of the staple in there...it takes about a minute, with no fighting or stressing the board (or yourself). Just my 2 worth.


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