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Old 01-14-2020, 05:59 AM   #61
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


I am about burned out on this engine. I haven't even touched the engine in the last three days. There have been days I haven't touched anything on it. Oh well as long as I get it done.

The engine is in and almost everything is hooked up except for just a few things like the exhaust manifold, (which the flange needs to be flattened yet) alternator, radiator and stuff like that. What has me stopped right now is bleeding that cotton picking clutch master cylinder. Some of the guys who own one of these cars tell me it will take a good full day for two people to bleed it. Below is how one fellow bled his, and below that is the factory manual instructions.

What has me concerned at this point is the slave cylinder that is on the pilot shaft. I did not replace it or the clutch, flywheel, pressure plate or throw out bearing which is made onto the slave cylinder. It all worked before so I am sure hoping it will work now. We are just out of money, it took all we had to rebuild this thing. Anyway, if that slave cylinder that is on the pilot shaft has air in it, all I can do is pull the engine back out and get the air out of it.

There is no other way to get to that slave cylinder, with the transmission in place. Just had a thought on that part, maybe draw a vacuum at the bleed valve and let it suck fluid back in the slave cylinder that is on the transmission. Anyway, here are the instructions if you have a half day to read all of this. LOL Just another note. The brake master cylinder is the reservoir for the slave cylinder inside the fire wall, then a line goes from that slave cylinder to the bleeder valve at the transmission. The bleeder valve is made onto the tubing that goes to the throw out bearing and slave cylinder on the pilot shaft that can not be accessed with the transmission in place.
===============================================

Bleed the Master Cylinder first guys, I've read many threads including one member saying how they were pumping the clutch pedal for hours.

First, Disconnect the clutch line that goes directly to the master cylinder with a 10mm wrench. Allow all existing fluid to bleed out of that via gravity, or by pumping the clutch pedal. Why is this part necessarily? You can shoot a light down into the core of the master clyinder to check if the main ballast is dirty. If it is dirty, clean it ONLY with flushing of fluid.

Next preparation step is to go into the cabin and crawl underneath to your clutch pedal. Remove the Pin and Clip which connects your clutch fork to your clutch pedal. You will need a good pair of plyers for what is to be done next.

Get some clear vinyl or clear silicone tubing which fits into the hole where the brake line used to connect to the master cylinder. The other side of the tube will loop back into the top of the master cylinder.

Make sure all of the bleeding valves on the slave cylinders are 100% closed. Fill the Master cylinder with fluid, making sure that the master cylinder never empties during the entire bleeding process.

Go back into the cabin and use the plyers previously mentioned to clamp down on the fork, pushing the fork all the way to the firewall *you can't push it ALL the way with the clutch pedal itself, which explains the removal*.

Using the plyers, pump the clutch fork all the way and you will be able to see all the master cylinder air in the tubing pump back into the the top. Once all of the air is pumped out of the tubing, the next quick part begins.

All of the air should now be bleed out of the master cylinder. What you need to do next is to remove the tubing from the clutch line hole, and ninja the brake line back into the master cylinder. Now.. You will have fluid leaking out of the hole, but if your master cylinder is full, no air will get in thru that point due to gravity. Once the clutch line is back into the master cylinder, proceed to bleed the clutch lines.

You can now reconnect the clutch cylinder and the clutch pedal, via the pin and clip. Start pumping your clutch pedal and you should be able to feel pressure. Keep pumping and keep an eye on your master cylinder, keeping it topped up. Go to your slave cylinder bleeder and open it just a bit, allowing yourself to see some small bubbling from the bleeder valve. The pedal will go all soft again so close the bleeder valve when all of the air is empty while keeping the master cylinder topped up. Repeat Repeat and Repeat until no air bubbles are visible, and then move onto the transmission to bleed that valve in the same manor.

There ya go.

Air Bleeding Procedure INFOID:0000000001850840 CAUTION: Do not spill clutch fluid onto painted surfaces. If it spills, wipe up immediately and wash the affected area with water. NOTE: Do not use a vacuum assist or any other type of power bleeder on this system. Use of a vacuum assist or power bleeder will not purge all the air from the system. Carefully monitor fluid level in reservoir tank during bleeding operation.
1. Fill master cylinder reservoir tank with new clutch fluid.
2. Connect a transparent vinyl tube and container to the bleeding connector (1) on the CSC.
3. Depress and release the clutch pedal slowly and fully 15 times at an interval of two to three seconds and release the clutch pedal.
4. Bleed the air from the clutch system according to the following:

1. Push in the lock pin (1) of the bleeding connector
(2), and hold it in. CAUTION: Hold the lock pin in to prevent the bleeding connector from separating when fluid pressure is applied.
2. Slide the bleeding connector (1) as shown to the specified distance (A) to allow air to bleed from the clutch system.
3. Depress the clutch pedal and hold it down. CAUTION: Hold the clutch pedal down to prevent air from getting back into the clutch system.
4. Bleed the air from the clutch system according to the following: 1. Push in the lock pin (1) of the bleeding connector (2), and hold it in. CAUTION: Hold the lock pin in to prevent the bleeding connector from separating when fluid pressure is applied. 2. Slide the bleeding connector (1) as shown to the specified distance (0.20inch) (A) to allow air to bleed from the clutch system. 3. Depress the clutch pedal and hold it down. CAUTION: Hold the clutch pedal down to prevent air from getting back into the clutch system.
5. Return the bleeding connector and lock pin to their original positions.
6. Release the clutch pedal and wait for five seconds.
7. Repeat steps 3 through 6 until no bubbles are observed in the clutch fluid. LCIA0409E W


Just unbelievable, I hate this car. The Japanese are laughing their butts off at Americans who buy this car. So on to another big bump in the road.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:25 AM   #62
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


That is nuts.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:34 AM   #63
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


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That is nuts.
Ain't that the truth, I have never seen anything like this crazy car. I will be soooooo glad when it is back on the road.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:40 AM   #64
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


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Ain't that the truth, I have never seen anything like this crazy car. I will be soooooo glad when it is back on the road.
One guy says to the other. You wouldn't believe the instructions I wrote in the English manual
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:28 AM   #65
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


Jim: I feel your frustration, all the way out west.

Someone should invent a bleeder system that is actually easy, and works on these types of cars.

This is why most people drive Automatics now.

Modern engineering has lost it's mind designing these things.


ED
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:19 AM   #66
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


And it's not just the Japanese. My 2016 Corvette clutch slave cylinder is impossible to access to bleed without removing a lot of stuff like some of the exhaust... not sure what all since I haven't done it nor do I intend to. Most of us use a work around to periodically refresh our fluid by just siphoning out the reservoir and refilling it a bunch of times. But if you need to bleed the system it is a huge job. There is an aftermarket company that makes a remote bleed fitting to make routine maintenance easier... but you have to drop the transmission to install it. Sheesh. So even GM does really stupid stuff.

Sounds like you are getting really close, Jim. I am hoping it all works out for the best and you get to enjoy the little race car for a long time.

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Originally Posted by de-nagorg View Post
Jim: I feel your frustration, all the way out west.

Someone should invent a bleeder system that is actually easy, and works on these types of cars.

This is why most people drive Automatics now.

Modern engineering has lost it's mind designing these things.


ED
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Last edited by raylo32; 01-14-2020 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:22 AM   #67
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


I once discovered some fords came from the factory without intake or exhaust gaskets. During the overhaul I assumed what was factory was good enough. Not so, cyl. No. 3 was dead from sucking air due to a warped intake.

I was acquainted with a old seasoned mechanic and was told they had since came out with a gasket set. That solved the problem. If this Nissan was mine I'd not bother flattening the exhaust manifold and consider it worth a try with just a new gasket.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:40 AM   #68
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


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Originally Posted by raylo32 View Post
And it's not just the Japanese. My 2016 Corvette clutch slave cylinder is impossible to access to bleed without removing a lot of stuff like some of the exhaust... not sure what all since I haven't done it nor do I intend to. Most of us use a work around to periodically refresh our fluid by just siphoning out the reservoir and refilling it a bunch of times. But if you need to bleed the system it is a huge job. There is an aftermarket company that makes a remote bleed fitting to make routine maintenance easier... but you have to drop the transmission to install it. Sheesh. So even GM does really stupid stuff.
Ah, the Ranger Method.

My C5 clutch went out (something about the PP fingers wasn't right and it wouldn't release the disc. Being the cheapo DIYer I am, I did the clutch myself. As you know, this involves dropping the entire drivetrain behind the bellhousing. Which I had to do twice.

I thought I was being smart, buying a remote bleed kit for the slave cylinder (stupid GM and their internal slave). However, the kit was poorly designed, and the flex hose where the fitting exited the bellhousing bumped up against the driveshaft tunnel and kinked. I was not happy with this situation, but I wanted the car back on the road so I let it be. Later on, I had to drop the thing again to install a 90 swivel fitting, which let me avoid the kinked hose.

(None of the remote bleeder kits I've seen include the 90 swivel, which they should.)
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:52 AM   #69
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


Exactly. Someone recently devised a new improved Ranger method that uses a 60-100cc medical syringe connected to a ~20" piece of 1/8" tubing. So you first siphon out the reservoir, then shove the tube into the line from the master to the slave as far as it'll go, then inject the clean fluid that then backfills the reservoir. Siphon out and repeat until all clean. The theory is this gets more of the old nasty stuff out than the basic Ranger method... even though the far slave end won't see much benefit except by very slow interchange. I will try this soon.

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Ah, the Ranger Method.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:37 AM   #70
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


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I once discovered some fords came from the factory without intake or exhaust gaskets. During the overhaul I assumed what was factory was good enough. Not so, cyl. No. 3 was dead from sucking air due to a warped intake.

I was acquainted with a old seasoned mechanic and was told they had since came out with a gasket set. That solved the problem. If this Nissan was mine I'd not bother flattening the exhaust manifold and consider it worth a try with just a new gasket.
SS, I had this same manifold on before the engine went down. It was spitting a code that one of the 02 sensors was bad or either one of the cylinders had an exhaust leak. While I had it off this time I used a straight edge and sure enough both ends of the flange that bolts to the engine turn up around .020 inch.

The code was for the 02 sensor or leak in the #1 bank of the exhaust. look at the photo of the exhaust/catalytic converter, see #1 and #4 cylinder are on the same 02 sensors, both of the ends that have the gap are on #1and #4.

I used a fiber gasket last time I put this manifold on, it didn't work. This full engine gasket set I got, the exhaust gasket is two layers of metal and will never seal with the gap it has now. What really gets me is, I just bought this manifold that has two catalytic converters built into it. As much as the thing cost, I sure thought it would be right. It has been too long to send it back now though.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:58 AM   #71
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


I just read what one of the guys who own one of these demon cars said about his bleeding experience. He said he took his to a Nissan mechanic to have a slave cylinder replaced. The mechanic told him he hopes the car burns to the ground before he has to bleed another one like this. lol I will follow the procedure and expect the frustrations.

I have tried to visualize why it is so hard to bleed. I have rebuilt many master cylinders and there is a residual check valve with a spring that keeps a residual pressure in the brake system to keep the cylinder cup lips from collapsing. Maybe the slave cylinders don't have such a check valve so the air is just moved back and forth and just a very little fluid is pushed into the line at a time.

I still don't understand why the factory manual says that a vacuum set up won't work on this system. Man I wish I knew how the slave is set up inside. Just a thought: why can't I pull the line going to the transmission from the outside of the cylinder on the firewall and using a turkey baster and bleed all the air out of that line down to the transmission. There will be fluid in that line. Leave that line open at the cylinder at the firewall and let all the air in the slave inside of the transmission bubble to the top of that line. It should work.

Then I would have to bench bleed that cylinder on the firewall to get all the air out of it. Re-connect the lines and it should be good to go. What do you think, do you think that might work?
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:03 PM   #72
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


The last Hydraulic Clutch that I had to repair was on an early 90's F250.

And the slave was mounted on the outside of the bell housing, but I had to bleed the dang thing 3 times before I got all the bubbles out of it.

Give me the old all mechanical linkages please.

One simple adjustment, and you're all set.

Jim: that idea might work, if you can get the slave to give up all the air the first time, but you might have to bleed it twice or more, over a few days time, giving the residual bubbles time to get together into one.


ED
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:15 PM   #73
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


After torquing the 2 center flanges and running the outer blots up to snug I'd probably consider applying some heat about mid way in the length around those 2 outer exhaust pipes with a acetylene torch to bring the 2 ends in while tightening.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:28 PM   #74
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


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After torquing the 2 center flanges and running the outer blots up to snug I'd probably consider applying some heat about mid way in the length around those 2 outer exhaust pipes with a acetylene torch to bring the 2 ends in while tightening.
That might work, but he said that he sold his torch, because he thought that he would not be using it ever again.


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Old 01-14-2020, 01:02 PM   #75
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Re: Putting Engine Back In


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That might work, but he said that he sold his torch, because he thought that he would not be using it ever again.


ED
Missed that bit of info.But that exhaust material sure looks more ductile than cast Iron would be.
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