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Old 04-27-2015, 04:37 PM   #1
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Sherwin Williams at Lowe's


I'm going to steal this thread from our sister Paint Talk because I think the DIY side could also become interesting.

If you have been in Lowe's in the last couple of weeks you know they now sell Sherwin Williams paints. A line called Ovation, which from everything I can read is re-labeled SuperPaint, and Showcase which seems to be re-labeled ProMar 200.

As a pretty loyal SW customer for years this upsets me. I have been telling people they need to pay more to get a quality paint. Now they can get the same paint for less than I can or at least close to the same price.

How would you like to be a SW store manager, for years now you have said your paint is better than box store paint. Now you not only have competition from the big box store paint lines, but from your own company.

I really think this is enough for me to change to Ben Moore and Porter. Am interested to hear how others feel.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:05 PM   #2
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As a plumber, I feel for you.
A lot of my clients supply their own fixtures, even some pipe and fittings. The brands are the same as I purchase from my supply house.
I tell them that they now have no warranty beyond what I'm legally obligated for.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:00 PM   #3
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its my understanding lowes purchased sherwin williams.....just hear say at this point...expect the sw stores to slowly close....
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:09 PM   #4
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Not likely Ben... SW is a NYSE listed company.... certainly there would be business news.

Valspar reported they lost a 200M retail account... must have been Lowes.
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:00 PM   #5
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Goes way back to mid December. Valspar lost ground, SW contracted to supply certain lines of paint to lowes.....and have same available in their own stores also. Ron
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:15 PM   #6
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doesn't matter to me. I will pick the best paint that fits my budget.

What's the price on these lowes SW paints anyway?


I just checked lowes.com, and they have $5 quarts of SW HGTV paint.
That's the cheapest I've ever seen for a quart

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Old 04-27-2015, 07:55 PM   #7
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Just bought 2 gallons of exterior Semi-Gloss in the Ovation just to give it a whirl. I actually bought a lot of the Valspar Semi-gloss at Lowe's because it was so much cheaper than what I paid for SG at SW. Now it's gone! Replaced with the Ovation. It (the Ovation) was $34 a gallon.

Toolseeker, I feel your pain about SW. If I didn't have one of the few awesome SW stores, I would certainly consider a move. Lord knows they've never given me (small contractor) much of a price break on paint. I do get good pricing on SuperPaint and Cashmere but that's bout it, and that took me many years of coaxing and begging. BM would be a consideration for me, but, at this stage of my painting life, change might not be so good unless I would get unbelievable contractor pricing.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:46 AM   #8
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I would switch to BM in a heartbeat, if it was not 20 miles away. PPG works great for me, good paint, good pricing. WAY better price than SW
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:34 AM   #9
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I'm not trying to get anyone to switch. And like Shu I have a good SW store I have dealt with for years. I just feel that this is a slap in the face to contractors. For years I have told people that my paint was better than box store paint because I really felt it was. How can I do that now when I feel it's the same paint just re-labeled.

I have used most paints out there, some good, some not so good, But I kept going back to SW because I knew what to expect from what paint line because I was familiar with it. I like Porter/PPG and I like Ben Moore, Pratt and Lambert is another good paint although hard to find in my area. I'm just not familiar with some of their lines. But I think that's going to change.

This is just my opinions. Really don't know why it bugs me so much, they did the same thing with Purdy brushes. Can be bought at the box store cheaper than at SW store.
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:51 AM   #10
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I don't understand the problem. What's the difference if a homeowner goes in to a big box store or sw store to buy paint. People that hire a professional painter are paying him or her to paint, not buy paint.
Kind of like Titleist golf balls. They used to only be available at pro shops. Not you can purchase them in most sporting good stores. Companies want to expand market share
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:52 AM   #11
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What I don't understand about SW is the apparent devotion to the Homeowner like Toolseeker said. In my thinking, the contractors across the country surely buy more paint than the homeowners, or, then again, maybe not. The guy that buys 5,000 gallons a year is surely worth more to SW than the guy buying 10 gallons one time to paint his house?
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
What I don't understand about SW is the apparent devotion to the Homeowner like Toolseeker said. In my thinking, the contractors across the country surely buy more paint than the homeowners, or, then again, maybe not. The guy that buys 5,000 gallons a year is surely worth more to SW than the guy buying 10 gallons one time to paint his house?
Commercial sales account for over 70% of the paint sold in the US. Of course some HD employees in NC would dispute that.
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:56 AM   #13
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My primary source for paint is Sherwin Williams. I also have an account at Benjamin Moore, but I don't use it as much. (Nothing against BM, it's just that I feel it's better to get more familiar with 1 paint line, than spread myself too thin, pun intended). I get 5% at Home Depot and Lowe's. I like Home Depot more than Lowe's, so I sometimes buy Behr, and very rarely Valspar. I couldn't really tell you what my discount is at SW or BM, but let's say it's about 25-30% average.

I understand your point about the SW manager, from his point of view. But I don't even know who my SW store managers are, so I'm not sure why I'd care too much about them him myself.

I wouldn't really call myself a "loyal" SW customer, even though that's where I get most of my paint. And I've never tried to tell customers that SW is the best. I try to get a feel for what their biases are, and work with that. I feel that there are good enough products at SW, BM, or HD that I can get a product that I'm comfortable with and results they'll be happy with. Some customers already know they want Cashmere, or Duration, or Aura. Some customers who start out with "Well, I know that BM is the best...." - I have to have a longer conversation with, because I know they heard that on some blog somewhere.

I've had some problems with SW in the past. To name them:
- inconsistent discounts/pricing
- changing my discount level without telling me
- having to ask for pricing information (these 3 things mean I never know exactly how much my paint costs are going to be, month to month)
- bad paint matching in the past (has improved in the last couple years as they have relied more on computer matching, not people)
- some dumb associates who can't answer questions about products
- lack of some products in some stores
- one case of just plain bad finish from a Color Accent paint that was never resolved or explained
- high cost of some paints that I don't use a lot of

If it weren't for the fact that SuperPaint has performed so well for me as my bread and butter wall paint over the past decade or two, I probably wouldn't even use SW much. If I had a truly expert sales rep from SW who talked to me and really helped me solve problems, I'd probably feel different. To be honest, I bump into the Behr rep at my local HD from time to time, and he seems to know more about paint than the people I talk to at SW. Granted, the paint counter people range from completely clueless to barely competent, so they're of no use to me either.

So even though I plan to keep them as my main supplier for now, I really don't care how they run their business, because they don't really seem to care a whole lot about me (I don't use 5,000 gals/yr, but still....) If those paints are available at Lowes, it's probably better for me anyway, because then I don't have to make 2 stops for my various job supplies.

Last edited by jeffnc; 04-28-2015 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
It (the Ovation) was $34 a gallon.
I am going to have to look into this. If exterior semi-gloss is $34, then wouldn't interior flat be less than $30? If this is true, and if toolseeker is right that this is SuperPaint, then Lowes might have a new customer. As I said in my other post, I don't know how much I pay for SuperPaint from month to month, but I think it's always $30+, let's say $32. If I can get Ovation/SuperPaint for $28, then game on.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
My primary source for paint is Sherwin Williams. I also have an account at Benjamin Moore, but I don't use it as much. (Nothing against BM, it's just that I feel it's better to get more familiar with 1 paint line, than spread myself too thin, pun intended). I get 5% at Home Depot and Lowe's. I like Home Depot more than Lowe's, so I sometimes buy Behr, and very rarely Valspar. I couldn't really tell you what my discount is at SW or BM, but let's say it's about 25-30% average.

I understand your point about the SW manager, from his point of view. But I don't even know who my SW store managers are, so I'm not sure why I'd care too much about them him myself.

I wouldn't really call myself a "loyal" SW customer, even though that's where I get most of my paint. And I've never tried to tell customers that SW is the best. I try to get a feel for what their biases are, and work with that. I feel that there are good enough products at SW, BM, or HD that I can get a product that I'm comfortable with and results they'll be happy with. Some customers already know they want Cashmere, or Duration, or Aura. Some customers who start out with "Well, I know that BM is the best...." - I have to have a longer conversation with, because I know they heard that on some blog somewhere.

I've had some problems with SW in the past. To name them:
- inconsistent discounts/pricing
- changing my discount level without telling me
- having to ask for pricing information (these 3 things mean I never know exactly how much my paint costs are going to be, month to month)
- bad paint matching in the past (has improved in the last couple years as they have relied more on computer matching, not people)
- some dumb associates who can't answer questions about products
- lack of some products in some stores
- one case of just plain bad finish from a Color Accent paint that was never resolved or explained
- high cost of some paints that I don't use a lot of

If it weren't for the fact that SuperPaint has performed so well for me as my bread and butter wall paint over the past decade or two, I probably wouldn't even use SW much. If I had a truly expert sales rep from SW who talked to me and really helped me solve problems, I'd probably feel different. To be honest, I bump into the Behr rep at my local HD from time to time, and he seems to know more about paint than the people I talk to at SW. Granted, the paint counter people range from completely clueless to barely competent, so they're of no use to me either.

So even though I plan to keep them as my main supplier for now, I really don't care how they run their business, because they don't really seem to care a whole lot about me (I don't use 5,000 gals/yr, but still....) If those paints are available at Lowes, it's probably better for me anyway, because then I don't have to make 2 stops for my various job supplies.
The retail prices are lower at Lowe's, but it's hard to tell what kind of discount SW can give you on Ovation. It seems their margins are pretty tight already.
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