A Pressure-treated Deck, Painted White, Paint Cracking - Painting - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 04-25-2015, 08:08 PM   #1
Restoration professional
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 150
Rewards Points: 302
Default

A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking


Doctor: The patient is a pressure-treated deck railing which was painted white a few years ago without primer, and was repainted two months ago with flat BM exterior regal select paint. Moisture levels were not checked at the time. Small cracks have opened up, parallel to the grain and along corners, and especially on top of hand rails (5/4x6 PT wood.)

Online research suggests painting PT wood is a bad idea, but it's too late to go back to a deck stain. I don't want to know what I should have done...What CAN i do now? I'm thinking I use speed heater to remove paint and to dry it out, carbide scraper, roughen with sandpaper, then use crack-stop high build primer before the paint. Why is oil/alkyd not recommended with the PT chemicals?

Pictures momentarily.
halliwellc is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-25-2015, 08:27 PM   #2
Super Moderator
 
Gymschu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Ohio (heart of Appalachia)
Posts: 6,761
Rewards Points: 566
Default


The God's honest truth is that you would be further ahead to just remove the deck railing, install new, and start over. Scraping, sanding, or stripping is gonna cost you $$$ and lots of time and elbow grease. For railings I would use a solid color stain like Woodscapes from Sherwin-Williams. Paint and PT wood do not play well together as you have obviously discovered.
__________________
"In the heat of battle, my father wove a tapestry of obscenity........."
Gymschu is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-25-2015, 08:40 PM   #3
Restoration professional
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 150
Rewards Points: 302
Default


Pictures:
Attached Thumbnails
A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.31.33-pm.png   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.31.48-pm.png   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.32.47-pm.png   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.34.30-pm.png  
Attached Images
   
halliwellc is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-25-2015, 08:43 PM   #4
Restoration professional
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 150
Rewards Points: 302
Default


More pictures:
Attached Thumbnails
A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.34.37-pm.png   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.34.55-pm.jpg   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.35.02-pm.png   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.35.12-pm.png   A pressure-treated deck, painted white, paint cracking-screen-shot-2015-04-25-8.35.31-pm.jpg  

halliwellc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2015, 08:47 PM   #5
Restoration professional
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 150
Rewards Points: 302
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
The God's honest truth is that you would be further ahead to just remove the deck railing, install new, and start over. Scraping, sanding, or stripping is gonna cost you $$$ and lots of time and elbow grease. For railings I would use a solid color stain like Woodscapes from Sherwin-Williams. Paint and PT wood do not play well together as you have obviously discovered.
Pictures posted now; total replacement isn't really an option here.
halliwellc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2015, 09:08 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


My understanding is that pressure treated wood shouldn't be painted for two years after purchase because the pressure treatment chemicals in the wood are still evaporating from the wood during that time.

What's crossing my mind is to buy a 4X8 sheet of 1/16 inch thick white vinyl (I think I paid about $42 for a sheet last time I bought), and take it down to any sheet metal shop and have it bent (on something called a brake) to fit OVER your top railing, but with enough of an air gap under and on each side so that air circulates between the wood and the vinyl, thereby keeping the wood dry and rot-free.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 04-25-2015 at 09:30 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2015, 11:38 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 373
Rewards Points: 750
Default


My understanding is pressure treated lumber should not be painted....ever.

Paint is used as a weather sealant, pressure treated lumber is already protected. Paint is not required, if you want it for ascetic reasons. Paint untreated lumber.

Cheapest solution is live with the cracking but guessing that is a no-go. You can nail or screw thin sheets of lumber directly onto the wood then paint that, if you want it painted but shouldn't paint pressure treated wood. Will never stick.
Hick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2015, 04:14 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 5,464
Rewards Points: 7,168
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick View Post
My understanding is pressure treated lumber should not be painted....ever.

Paint is used as a weather sealant, pressure treated lumber is already protected. Paint is not required, if you want it for ascetic reasons.
Yeah, it's big in the Jewish community. Oy.

You can paint PT lumber, but you need to let it dry out for 3-6 months. At least that's the timeframe I go with. I had not heard of 2 years, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

You don't paint to protect the wood, you paint because you like how it looks. In other words, for aesthetic reasons. You do prime it first.

Some of the newer processes do not require as long a wait. For example, check out this manufacturer suggestions:
http://www.yellawood.com/resources/p...-staining.aspx

" In the past, people waited 6 months or so before finishing projects that use pressure treated wood. That's no longer the case with newer treatments like the micronized copper preservatives used to treat YellaWoodŽ brand products. Now your project could be ready to be finished within 30 days of completion depending on a number of factors including your local weather conditions."
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2015, 06:27 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: outside ocala fl
Posts: 5,606
Rewards Points: 6,236
Default


The OP stated the deck was a few years old, to me this means it could be the old green PT which was soaked with the old arsenic formula not the new copper base. That old green stuff never really dried out and quit off gassing. It also was forever checking, splitting, and cracking, and twisting it was really bad to try to paint.

The newer process is a lot more forgiving. I guess my point is if it's the old PT just learn to live with problems as they probably won't stop.
__________________
Entering your general location can help with answering a lot of times
ToolSeeker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ToolSeeker For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (04-26-2015)
Old 04-26-2015, 09:16 AM   #10
Super Moderator
 
Gymschu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Ohio (heart of Appalachia)
Posts: 6,761
Rewards Points: 566
Default


To be honest, it doesn't look TOOOOOOO bad. I think some scraping, priming, and repainting is the way to go at this point. PT Decks/railings, etc. are a constant maintenance issue anyway so the simple solution is to repaint it, or, at least the areas that are peeling. Then keep an eye on it each year and redo as necessary.
__________________
"In the heat of battle, my father wove a tapestry of obscenity........."
Gymschu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2015, 10:13 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far sw sub chicago
Posts: 7,331
Rewards Points: 2,320
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
To be honest, it doesn't look TOOOOOOO bad. I think some scraping, priming, and repainting is the way to go at this point. PT Decks/railings, etc. are a constant maintenance issue anyway so the simple solution is to repaint it, or, at least the areas that are peeling. Then keep an eye on it each year and redo as necessary.
i agree, Gym. doesn't look to bad at all.
Fix'n it is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fix'n it For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (04-26-2015)
Old 04-26-2015, 10:56 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 5,464
Rewards Points: 7,168
Default


One thing I would add is that horizontal surfaces need more attention than vertical surfaces. Some manufacturers even specify different paints for horizontal vs. vertical. Specifically, I would carefully clean out those cracks on the top of the handrail and caulk with a quality caulk before continuing.
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jeffnc For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (04-26-2015)
Old 04-26-2015, 09:03 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
You don't paint to protect the wood, you paint because you like how it looks. In other words, for aesthetic reasons.
With utmost respect for JeffNC's knowledge and experience, one of the primary reasons for painting wood that's to be left outdoors is to PROTECT it from the elements. The wood on the inside of your garage doesn't need to be painted because it's protected from the elements by the garage roof, but wood that's exposed to the elements NEEDS to be protected, most often by painting it.

Wood absorbs rain water and/or snow melt 15 times as fast at it's end grain than it does across it's grain. Put a drop of water on the end grain of a board and it gets sucked right up. Put the same size drop on the side of that same board and it takes it's time being absorbed. Similarily, water evaporates from the end grain of a board 15 times as fast as it evaporates across the grain of wood. That's important because wood will swell as it's moisture content increases and shrink as it's moisture content decreases, and it's this increased amount of swelling and shrinking of the wood at the end grain that causes wood outdoors to split at it's end grain. Like this:



By painting that end grain you prevent the absorbtion and evaporation of water at the end grain, and that prevents the differential swelling and shrinking that causes wood to split at it's ends. Here in Canada, lumber that's earmarked for export is painted at it's ends to prevent that lumber from splitting as it dries. Go look at the 2X12's in any lumber yard, and if the ends of those joists aren't painted, you'll find that each and every one of them is split at both ends for 6 to 24 inches.

Bare wood exposed to UV light from the Sun will turn grey and fuzzy, like this:



UV light from the Sun breaks down the cellulose that wood cell walls are made of, and that causes the surface of the wood to deteriorate and turn grey.

Primer and paint protects the wood from the UV light from the Sun, thereby keeping the surface of the wood as strong and as hard as it should be.

You paint wood to protect it. You paint it red, green, blue or yellow for aesthetic reasons.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2015, 09:28 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
One thing I would add is that horizontal surfaces need more attention than vertical surfaces. Some manufacturers even specify different paints for horizontal vs. vertical. Specifically, I would carefully clean out those cracks on the top of the handrail and caulk with a quality caulk before continuing.
I would go further and say to use an ACRYLIC or LATEX caulk. Just in the same way that latex paints can "breathe" because they allow moisture to pass through the paint film, acrylic or latex caulks (often also called "painter's caulks") can breathe as well.

PS: You don't need to know this:
Latex paints are said to "breathe" because they will allow water vapour to pass through them, but not liquid water. How is this possible?

The polymer chains in acrylic paint resins are very similar in nature to a length of wire scrunched up into a ball. The gaps between the segments of wire are wider than the diameter of a single water molecule, but considerably smaller than the distance between water molecules in liquid water. So, individual H2O molecules can pass through latex paint relatively easily, but liquid water can't because each water molecule is attracted to all the others around it and won't wander off on it's own. Since the gaps between the segments of polymer in the resin aren't wide enough for multiple H2O molecules to pass through together, none of them pass through the acrylic resin because of the force of attraction between water molecules.

This attraction between water molecules is what gives rise to "surface tension" where you can "float" a paper clip or razor blade on water.

Acrylic or latex caulks are the same in that they'll allow H2O molecules to pass through them, but not liquid water. So, rain can't get in, but the wood can dry out through an acrylic caulk, and dry wood is happy wood.

Acrylic caulks are always paintable, and I'd use a latex primer and a latex paint so the H2O molecules can get out of the wood quickly and easily. (I don't know that you'd need to prime a paintable caulk. Prolly not.)
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 04-26-2015 at 09:50 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2015, 11:02 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 373
Rewards Points: 750
Default


Guess I am not up to date on wolmanized lumber. Always been taught never paint PT wood but...haven't really "checked my facts" in bout 10ish years on that.
Hick is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ready to paint the porch! Oil or latex? Leah Frances Painting 10 08-24-2015 02:59 PM
Pressure washing deck and patio - speeding it up? bryanRN Painting 2 09-26-2011 08:33 AM
Why has my white paint work turned yellow S. Alton Painting 6 07-07-2011 11:52 AM
Ceiling Paint White versus Wall Paint White David Riley Drywall & Plaster 1 01-13-2011 09:16 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts