Oil Or Water Based Stain For Cedar Shelves? - Painting - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree7Likes
  • 1 Post By 660catman
  • 2 Post By cocomonkeynuts
  • 1 Post By 660catman
  • 2 Post By cocomonkeynuts
  • 1 Post By Dave Sal
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 10-17-2019, 06:16 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 37
Rewards Points: 74
Default

Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Hi

I have a dilemma. I have 4 shelves for my home office, cedar planks 9ft long. I like the Dark Walnut color, but have a problem because I heard that water based stain are better for shelves, compared to oil based. The oil based stain is supposed to leak odor for years, and is not healthy. And we are expecting a baby!

So, I tried both and results are completely different. On the picture:

right: oil based result - 1 coat
left: water based result - 3 coats (1 coat, 2 coat and 3 coats sections)



And stains:



I like the oil based, because the color is exactly what I want. Water based is very red, not what I want at all.

Any suggestion what to do? Is Oil based really that unhealthy for inside projects?
johnd9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-17-2019, 07:24 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 37
Rewards Points: 74
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Looking at the pictures I see that stains look very bright... the stains are actually much 'richer' colors, water based is very red, while oil based is quite dark.
johnd9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-17-2019, 08:30 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 4
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


If you want a different look try something like we did in a house renovation. Wood was rough cut red pine. Take a piece of steel wool and let it sit in apple cider vinegar till itís dissolved. May take 2-3 days. Strain it and paint it on boards. You could do a clear coat of you want. We left as is. It was to clad floor support beam.

Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?-img_1275.jpg


Retired guy from Southern Manitoba, Canada.
johnd9 likes this.
660catman is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-17-2019, 08:35 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 967
Rewards Points: 1,782
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Step 1. Throw away the minwax and varathane.
That said, oil based stains are mostly done off gassing 24 hours. Nothing to worry about.


Here is how to professionally finish cabinetry:


Sand boards to 120 grit. Use conditioner such as delys benite. scuff sand with fine grit sand sponge. Then stain with old masters, general finishes, lenmar etc...Topcoat with oil or waterborne varnish/polyurethane or lacquer.


Iron acetate or baking soda only work with woods with high tannin content. Should produce good results on cedar though.


Alternatively take a torch and light char the wood will also give it a rustic looking finish.
Dave Sal and johnd9 like this.

Last edited by cocomonkeynuts; 10-17-2019 at 08:37 PM.
cocomonkeynuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 09:44 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 37
Rewards Points: 74
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 660catman View Post
If you want a different look try something like we did in a house renovation. Wood was rough cut red pine. Take a piece of steel wool and let it sit in apple cider vinegar till itís dissolved. May take 2-3 days. Strain it and paint it on boards. You could do a clear coat of you want. We left as is. It was to clad floor support beam.
That is quite unique process
johnd9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 09:50 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 37
Rewards Points: 74
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cocomonkeynuts View Post
Step 1. Throw away the minwax and varathane.
That said, oil based stains are mostly done off gassing 24 hours. Nothing to worry about.


Here is how to professionally finish cabinetry:


Sand boards to 120 grit. Use conditioner such as delys benite. scuff sand with fine grit sand sponge. Then stain with old masters, general finishes, lenmar etc...Topcoat with oil or waterborne varnish/polyurethane or lacquer.


Iron acetate or baking soda only work with woods with high tannin content. Should produce good results on cedar though.


Alternatively take a torch and light char the wood will also give it a rustic looking finish.
Thank you for the detailed process. I just sanded with 150 and 220, and stained.
So conditioner and finish is a must? I don't it to look very shine very polished, like old style cabinets where you can see yourself like in a mirror.
johnd9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2019, 10:00 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 4
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd9 View Post
That is quite unique process


Yeah we played around with formulas on 2x4ís which varied with time steel wool was in vinegar. What also changed the richness of it was painting black tea on boards first and letting that dry. Who would have thought black tea would change its looks. We did same process on hemlock stair railing and maple railing. Railings were clear coated with Varathane diamond wood finish water based satin.
Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?-img_1572.jpg


Retired guy from Southern Manitoba, Canada.
JohnWL likes this.
660catman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2019, 06:55 AM   #8
retired painter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: east tenn
Posts: 7,847
Rewards Points: 1,696
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


I'd use a separate stain followed by 2-3 coats of poly. The poly will both give the shelves a uniform sheen and protect the stain from wear.


If you can, stain/finish the wood outside or in the garage. That will eliminate any odor in the house. Otherwise a little fresh air ventilation will remove the odor in a day or so.
mark sr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2019, 08:57 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 37
Rewards Points: 74
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark sr View Post
I'd use a separate stain followed by 2-3 coats of poly. The poly will both give the shelves a uniform sheen and protect the stain from wear.


If you can, stain/finish the wood outside or in the garage. That will eliminate any odor in the house. Otherwise a little fresh air ventilation will remove the odor in a day or so.
Yes, I can stain in my backyard and leave it a garage for a few days to settle and dry completely.

So, I see you guys don't really think oil based stains are health hazard, as long as it dries outside, right?
johnd9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #10
retired painter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: east tenn
Posts: 7,847
Rewards Points: 1,696
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


For most folks it's not a health hazard when used inside and fresh air ventilation will remove the fumes. But there are few folks that are extra sensitive so for them it's best to either do the finishing at a remote location or have them stay somewhere else until the work is done.
mark sr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2019, 11:03 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 967
Rewards Points: 1,782
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd9 View Post
Thank you for the detailed process. I just sanded with 150 and 220, and stained.
So conditioner and finish is a must? I don't it to look very shine very polished, like old style cabinets where you can see yourself like in a mirror.

You can have whatever finish you want.. Dull rubbed or satin polyurethane looks great and durable. 220 is too fine to stain with. 120-150 grit is good.


Here is what quality (lenmar) stain looks like next to minwax (top and bottom). Samples on alder and cut from the same stock. Looks even more rich in real life compared to photo... Your choice: Have $10000 looking job or weekend homedepot job. To put it more bluntly minwax is crap.

Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?-571865077_01.jpg


Here is cheap pallet wood finished just with3 coats benite.
Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?-img958120_01.jpg
Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?-564097043_01.jpg
Dave Sal and JohnWL like this.

Last edited by cocomonkeynuts; 10-18-2019 at 11:12 AM.
cocomonkeynuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #12
Member
 
Dave Sal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,472
Rewards Points: 326
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


I built an oak headboard last year and had planned on using Minwax stain (dark walnut) and Minwax polyurethane in satin finish. I didn't care for the look of the stain on some test pieces, and posted a question on this forum about better quality stains / poly's.

Cocomonkeynuts was kind enough to post a reply suggesting Old Masters stains / poly (thanks again), so I went out and bought them. The headboard came out exactly as I had hoped with a rich finish that was perfect. The Old Masters products were so much better than Minwax and I'll never use anything else.

I built the headboard in my detached garage and did the staining / polyurethane application there as well. Left it out there for about a week, assuming that it would be dry and would have off-gassed completely by then, and then brought it inside and mounted it to my bed. When my wife came home that day and walked in the front door the first thing she said was, "what stinks?". I opened the bedroom window and had a fan blowing fresh air in, which helped a little but I was inundated with complaints about the smell for almost a month. I ended up covering it with a sheet until the odor went away. I've read that the poly smell goes away after a couple of days, but in my case it took an entire month. Just FYI.

P.S. For some reason the pic looks a lot more orange than it really is.
Attached Thumbnails
Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?-dsc00581.jpg  
mathmonger likes this.
Dave Sal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2019, 10:14 AM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 36
Default

Re: Oil or water based stain for cedar shelves?


One thing to note when treating wood with iron compounds such as iron acetate, youíre pretty much committed to that look. No amount of sanding or chemical extraction with oxalic acid will fully remove the iron tannate compounds from within the wood. Even when sanding back to clean virgin wood and cleaning it with oxalic acid, thinking youíve removed it all, the gray has a tendency to want to come back, especially around knots, fastener holes, vessels within the wood, and at all the wood joints.
JohnWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts