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Old 03-15-2019, 09:34 AM   #16
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Re: New deck to be stained


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Originally Posted by klaatu View Post
nope. I literally wiped dew off my boards and stained them immediately. It's all about the stain quality. With the right stain you don't have to let it weather and you don't have to let it dry out. The people who don't HAVE such stains will of course say otherwise. If the lumber is dry enough that you can build with it and not have it shrink then with the right product it can be stained right away. It's all about what people have to sell. If they have ****ty outdated product then they are going to recommend ****ty outdated prep.

What stain did you use? Couldn't be storm stain. I wouldn't say I am beholden to 'out dated' oil based stains but I know they work here in the winters.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:14 AM   #17
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Re: New deck to be stained


When I finished my deck, it rained practically every day through just about today. One of our wettest fall/winters since I moved here. There was no way I could have stained the deck (wet or dry wood). I don’t know enough about wood or stain to comment on what I’ve read. I do know that there is no consensus in this forum, or any forum like this. I do know several of you who have helped me out many times before. When I read “big box stores” etc, I get a little cynical about the poster. Not that he/she is wrong; just too cliche for this conversation. I have every intention of cleaning and restoring the wood before I stain it. I appreciate all of the advice. Waterborne will probably be the way I go. Will let you know outcome in a few months, if you remember or even care. Happy spring, y’all.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:18 AM   #18
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Re: New deck to be stained


We built our deck and pergola with redwood. Several years ago, we replaced
the three steps to four steps and then after that a stair rail with PT wood.

We purchased the wood early in the season and laid it out on the driveway
for a couple of weeks, then carried it to the backyard and placed it on two benches
on the sunny deck part of the deck where there is no pergola.
We then covered the wood for several days with clear plastic to further “heat it up”
to speed up the drying process. After the head guy built the steps we then stained it.


A couple of years later we made one stair rail...let it dry out for
several weeks before staining. The deck gets re-stained somewhere between
2 to 3 years due to the climate and the use. The side walls and the pergola
lasts about 6 to 7 years before needing to be re-stained. In the summer of 2017
the head guy added another stair rail to the other side of the steps.

Klaatu...
You state that your wood was treated with a conditioner and then properly stained.
No waiting for the PT wood to dry out.
Can you supply a pic of the deck? I would like to see your finished product
If drying time is not necessary, sharing this process with pics would be helpful.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:18 AM   #19
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Re: New deck to be stained


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well the truth is that after that wood has been exposed for a year there is a layer of dead wood fibers that needs to be removed before ANY stain is applied. Most premium exterior wood stain manufacturers do NOT recommend that bare wood be exposed to the elements for that long.

They also do not generally recommend new treated wood, because it's "wet" with chemicals and cannot fully absorb stain.


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Originally Posted by klaatu View Post
And if i am snarky it is only because i have seen this scam being done for over thirty years.
You've missed the point.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:22 AM   #20
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Re: New deck to be stained


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Originally Posted by luv2paint View Post
When I finished my deck, it rained practically every day through just about today. One of our wettest fall/winters since I moved here. There was no way I could have stained the deck (wet or dry wood).

FYI regular water dries out from wood faster than the pressure treating chemicals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2paint View Post
When I read “big box stores” etc, I get a little cynical about the poster. Not that he/she is wrong; just too cliche for this conversation.

That is the correct approach IMO as well. Too cynical/cliche/bandwagon for any painting conversation.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:38 AM   #21
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Re: New deck to be stained


I forgot to mention that when we covered the wood with plastic wrap we first
put it up on benches...

ya know, luv2paint...there are a lot of great people
on this forum and the professionals are very helpful and kindly offer their
advice. We are not an experts, but have done a lot of stuff ...and learned a lot along the way.
Attached Thumbnails
New deck to be stained-0fa059ac-4c0f-4632-ab67-cf8da3ab98dc.jpg   New deck to be stained-e9de726c-957f-4836-a969-a3e1e5c14118.jpg  
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:42 AM   #22
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Re: New deck to be stained


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ya know, luv2paint...there are a lot of great people
on this forum and the professionals are very helpful and kindly offer their
advice.

Most of them.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:59 AM   #23
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Re: New deck to be stained


What do you mean Jeff, not all offer their advice? My guy always tells me
that in his experience most people are very guarded about what they know in the trades.
They have accumulated a vast amount of experience and are NOT willing to share it.
This forum has surprised me in the amount knowledge that the people in the trades and are willing to share.
It takes a lot time to do so. Many are extremely kind and giving.

Our experience is based on things we’ve done over the years...We love to do
everything. it’s fun and rewarding. It’s also rewarding for me to
(as an amateur ) know that I may be helping someone, even if it’s a little bit.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:13 AM   #24
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Re: New deck to be stained


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What do you mean Jeff

I mean exactly what I said. You said "the professionals are very helpful and kindly offer their advice", and I said "Most of them." "Them" being the professionals you referred to, and "most" meaning "greatest in amount or degree".
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:53 AM   #25
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Re: New deck to be stained


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I mean exactly what I said. You said "the professionals are very helpful and kindly offer their advice", and I said "Most of them." "Them" being the professionals you referred to, and "most" meaning "greatest in amount or degree".
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:04 PM   #26
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I think this forum is the best kept secret in America. Painting is abhorred by many or at least intimidating to some. The pros and other experienced advisors here are not judgmental to us DIYERs. That’s why we post. I for one rely on the advice I receive. There are of course some disagreements about products or techniques but that is expected. Now my point. I plan to clean etc this new untreated and hopefully dry deck. Can I get some advice on products and methods to ensure a quality finish.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:44 AM   #27
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Re: New deck to be stained


Here's my take. I've been reading the responses and frankly I'm a bit confused by them. Bear with me.



There are essentially 2 kinds of "stain" finishes for your deck: film forming finishes, and penetrating finishes. Usually this means water based vs. oil based. So let's take a step back and we'll come back to this in a minute.


Here's how I understand the terms "water based" and "oil based". With regular paint, and basically all paint, you are forming an opaque film. There are basically 3 types of these: water based, oil based, and hybrid. The water based paints are acrylic/latex (that is another extremely confusing and misunderstood topic, not getting into it here), and the oil based paints are alkyds. The hybrid form is usually called "waterborne alkyds", which means a paint with both water and oil in it that can be cleaned up with soap and water.

So getting back to deck "stains", I put that in quotes because to me, the only thing that is a "stain" is a penetrating finish that doesn't form a film. Think of wood stains like Minwax and how they work.

What is called "waterbased stain" is actually not a stain at all IMO because these finishes actually form a film, and so I call them "paint".


Between these 2 choices, oil based stains are far preferred IMO, for maintenance reasons. A penetrating stain basically cannot form a film, and any coating that forms a film is eventually going to fail and peel. That's when the problems start. How do you maintain your deck? Once peeling starts, you basically have to remove the last coating and reapply to bare wood (either by sanding, chemical removal or with a pressure washer.) With a penetrating stain, you simply give the deck a wash and then reapply the same stain as last time, and you're good to go.

There are 2 potential downsides, the first being strictly aesthetic. If you want the look of solid color (i.e. "paint" instead of translucence with some wood grain showing through), your only option is a film forming finish. There are different grades of stain ranging from more or less transparent, but none of them are completely opaque. The second downside is that the stains normally can't provide as much UV resistance as an opaque film. The more translucent, the more UV gets through all else being equal.


OK, so back to the beginning now. People have been using the term "waterborne" coatings in this thread. Unless there is a hybrid product I'm not aware of, I'm assuming they mean by this "water based", because some people use those 2 terms interchangeably (I don't). And all water based products are film forming AFAIK. Maybe some of these products have gotten to the point where they're simply not going to peel, ever. But I doubt it. I'm always willing to change based on new technology, but as of right now I'm strictly a penetrating finish guy, unless a customer very specifically and insistently asks otherwise.

Last edited by jeffnc; 03-16-2019 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:54 AM   #28
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Re: New deck to be stained


We used water based stain. Mixed two colors together until we got the color
we liked...a reddish brown. Why did we do that? Because we bought a Olympic
Stain (Pretty sure it’s olympic) and it was too red, so we went back and bought
another Olympic stain that was more brown and mixed them together.

It amazes me that we’ve done this a few times and manage to come up with
a color we like.

The water based stain doesn’t peel, it fades. Especially fades on the parts most walked on.

We stained it last spring of 2017...I remember this cause we just built an outside
wet bar server and the freshly stained (reclaimed cedar) bar made the deck
look tired. At that time we did everything, the pergola, rails and side walls.

This is the color close up...the wet part on the right is from the sprinkler.

I like the soft flat finish, I believe the oil based would be shiny, donno for sure,
you tell me?
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:19 PM   #29
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Re: New deck to be stained


Deck stains are for the most part flat although some of the waterborne [not latex] stains have a slight sheen. The are a lot of factors that go into how long a deck stain will last; the quality of the coating, how it was applied and the environment it's exposed to being the biggest factors.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:25 PM   #30
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Re: New deck to be stained


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Deck stains are for the most part flat although some of the waterborne [not latex] stains have a slight sheen. The are a lot of factors that go into how long a deck stain will last; the quality of the coating, how it was applied and the environment it's exposed to being the biggest factors.

'siding' stains will be flat. Stains rated for 'decks' will always have a bit of sheen
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