Ammonia Is Pretty Lousy Degreaser - Painting - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 06-22-2015, 04:50 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 193
Rewards Points: 2
Default


btw "lye" apparently refers to any strong alkaline solution. I just looked it up, because in German the word "Lauge" (lye) is another word for an alkaline.

Ever had a "lye" pretzel? German: Laugenbrezel

i think theyre turned brown by chemical corrosion
JourneymanBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-22-2015, 05:36 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 312
Rewards Points: 452
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by klaatu View Post
Don't be surprised if the ammonia you bought at Home depot is mixed with water. Should say on the bottle somewhere.

I wouldn't be surprised. It didn't have that strong of an odor.

Surely at $1.50, it's gotta be watered down.
Must be why I couldn't cut grease effectively
pman6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-22-2015, 06:56 PM   #18
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 14,348
Rewards Points: 17,688
Blog Entries: 2
Default


I've had better luck with 409.

If your problem is like I think, you need to hit it with 2-3 different products.

409 To get the main part off. Ammonia for the rest...follow up with stainless steel cleaner.
__________________
Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there.

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-24-2015, 09:22 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,829
Rewards Points: 3,005
Default


I was painting a room where some kid had stuck scotch tape all over. Cheap old scotch tape. I tried picking at it, but it would just break as soon as I started to pull it off.

I bought these yesterday and happened to have them in the truck:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Scotch-Br...D-CC/100584162

They are monsters. I just scrubbed the tape off with plain water.

The secret to cleaning any kind of grime is a combination of the right chemical, the right concentration, the right temperature, the right dwell time, the right scrubber, and the right amound of pressure. If you mess up on any of those, you could damage the substrate or just fail to get it clean.
mathmonger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2015, 09:37 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 183
Rewards Points: 199
Default


About a month ago I saw a cleaning tip on Pinterest to clean grates from a gas stove. I put each grate in a plastic bag and poured ammonia in the bag and let the bags sit in the garage over night. The caked on grease or whatever black stuff dissolved with a minimal wipe with a paper towel. The bottle of ammonia was purchased for $1 at a $1 store. I'm not sure if it was watered down but it sure smelled strong.
Arlo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Arlo For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (06-25-2015)
Old 06-24-2015, 09:55 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by mathmonger View Post
I bought these yesterday and happened to have them in the truck:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Scotch-Br...D-CC/100584162

They are monsters. I just scrubbed the tape off with plain water.

You can get those pads cheap at any place listed under Machine Shop Supplies in your yellow pages phone directory. Machine shops use them for polishing metal they turn in lathes. Also, 3M makes them in about 5 different grades of "aggressiveness" for polishing different kinds of metal (aluminum, brass, steel, etc.).

I was told that the machinist would first do the machining on the lathe, and then use a Scotchbrite pad held in the hand to polish the piece. That seems potentially dangerous to me, but that's what I was told about how they're used.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-24-2015 at 10:19 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nestor_Kelebay For This Useful Post:
mathmonger (06-24-2015)
Old 06-25-2015, 03:52 AM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 193
Rewards Points: 2
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo View Post
About a month ago I saw a cleaning tip on Pinterest to clean grates from a gas stove. I put each grate in a plastic bag and poured ammonia in the bag and let the bags sit in the garage over night. The caked on grease or whatever black stuff dissolved with a minimal wipe with a paper towel. The bottle of ammonia was purchased for $1 at a $1 store. I'm not sure if it was watered down but it sure smelled strong.
thats like the trick where you put dirty coins in coke and let them sit overnight
JourneymanBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2015, 07:32 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,829
Rewards Points: 3,005
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
I've found Simple Green to be quite effective at removing cooking oil grease build-up.
I thought you were a Mr. Clean guy.
mathmonger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2015, 08:50 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by mathmonger View Post
I thought you were a Mr. Clean guy.
I actually like Mr. Clean as a detergent.

Different detergents are formulated to emulsify different kinds of soils. My understanding is that Simple Green is formulated to remove petroleum based oils, like engine oil and hydrocarbon based greases. Dish washing detergent is formulated to emulsify cooking oils (like corn oil) and animal fats (like bacon grease). Even through the oil that collects on a kitchen ceiling around the ceiling fan grille are generally cooking oils and animal fats, I find that Simple Green works well to clean those fans, grilles and painted ceiling around the fan. Also, I like the fact that Simple Green doesn't form a soap foam on top of the cleaning solution the way dish washing detergents do. I lack the patience to keep rinsing out a bucket to get ALL of the soap out of it so that I don't see a soap foam on top of the water with each rinsing with clean water. With Simple Green, there's no stubborn soap foam.

I use Mr. Clean for two important applications. I use it to machine scrub floors with my floor machine and a blue pad, and I use it in my carpet shampoo'er to clean carpets. There are companies that make specialized detergents for cleaning floors and shampoo'ing carpets, but I find that Mr. Clean does a good a job, and I'd rather just keep a few plastic jugs on my storage room shelf instead of a dozen or more (if I bought a different product for every kind of surface I clean).

On walls, I just use a damp Magic Eraser. I have yet to find a product that works better for removing marks from painted walls. Depending on the mark, I sometimes dampen the Magic Eraser with some CLR cleaning acid, and that helps remove stubbor marks, especially well from oil based paints.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-25-2015 at 08:54 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nestor_Kelebay For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (06-27-2015)
Old 06-26-2015, 07:05 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 193
Rewards Points: 2
Default


so do detergents work differently than soaps and other alkaline cleaners?

A detergent emulsifies, i.e. makes fat mixable with water. But ammonia actually reacts with the fats. I dont know if soap works by saponification or by emulsifying or something.

but ammonia def. works by saponification
JourneymanBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2015, 10:51 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by JourneymanBrian View Post
so do detergents work differently than soaps and other alkaline cleaners?

A detergent emulsifies, i.e. makes fat mixable with water. But ammonia actually reacts with the fats. I dont know if soap works by saponification or by emulsifying or something.

but ammonia def. works by saponification
JourneymanBrian:

The difference between a "soap" and a "detergent" is that soaps are made from animal fats or vegetable oils (notably Palm oil and Olive oil) by the saponification process. That is, soaps are made from natural products. The animal fats or vegetable oils are mixed with a strong alkali like caustic soda, and the result is the formation of soap and glycerine. In that saponification process, each soap molecule has a sodium ion at the end of it, and it's the attraction of that sodium ion to polar water molecules that gives the soap it's solubility in water.

Detergents are made from chemicals in a lab, not natural products. Because detergents are man-make chemicals, they can be formulated so that they have polar groups on the ends of the molecules that remain attracted to polar water molecules all the time. Consequently detergents aren't affected by hardness ions in water.

When soap is used with hard water, the result is soap scum. Soap scum is really nothing more than soap that has lost it's solubility in water. And the reason for this is because the hardness ions in water are typically Calcium++ ions. Magnesium++ ions, Iron++ ions and Iron+++ ions. What happens is that these hardness ions replace the sodium+ ion at the end of a soap molecule, so that you have TWO soap molecules connected at their ends to a single Calcium++ ion or Magnesium ++ ion. Alternatively, you can also have THREE soap molecules all connected to a single Iron+++ hardness ion. What that does is hide the hardness ion between two or three molecules that otherwise have no interest in dissolving in water. The results are soap scum molecules that precipitate out of the water and stick to the sides of your bathtub or bathroom sink.

You can actually drive the chemical reaction that created soap scum in a backwards direction. By cleaning soap scum with oven cleaner or lye or caustic soda or NaOH, you introduce a whole bunch of Na+ ions into the soap scum, and that imbalance drives the chemical reaction the other way. The plentiful number of Na+ ions results in the soap scum molecules breaking down to form soap molecules again. And, the soap molecules disappear in the water of the oven cleaner because they're soluble in water. So, next time try cleaning your bathtub with oven cleaner and you'll get it clean as a drill sargeant's whistle.

Because detergents are made in a lab, they can be formulated to have polar ends on them that are always attracted to polar H2O molecules, so detergents can be made to be unaffected by hardness ions in the water. This is why you will never see soap scum in your KITCHEN sink. That's because you use a dish washing DETERGENT in your kitchen sink. You only find soap scum in your bath tub and bathroom sink, because that's where you use SOAP, not a detergent.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-26-2015 at 11:03 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nestor_Kelebay For This Useful Post:
JourneymanBrian (06-27-2015)
Old 06-26-2015, 11:13 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,467
Rewards Points: 2,906
Default


PS:

Our word "soap" almost certainly comes from the name of Mount Sopa near Rome in Italy. In Roman times Mount Sopa was the place you went to ask a favour of a God. You would buy a small animal sacrifice, like a bird or ferret, kill it, tie it to a spit and burn it over an open fire so the smoke would rise up to the heavens carrying your request to whatever God you thought could help you out.

Roman women noticed that washing their clothes in the streams that ran down the slopes of Mount Sopa after a rain got them cleaner than washing clothes anywhere else or at any other time. It is believed that the animal fats from the sacrificial fires mixed with the alkaline ash in the fire pits to make a crude soap that would be carried by the rains down the slopes of Mount Sopa. There are historical records from Roman times attesting to the fact that women would flock to Mount Sopa after a rain to do their laundry. At the time, the Romans believed that the better cleaning action was due to one God or another looking down favourably on the hard working women of Rome.

Also, it is known that the Romans made soap, but the written historical record only says that they used it as a skin balm. No historical accounts exist to say that they actually used it for bathing, although it's probable that they did.
__________________
Bashing my head against the walls in some of the internet's finest chat rooms.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-26-2015 at 11:18 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nestor_Kelebay For This Useful Post:
JourneymanBrian (06-27-2015)
Old 06-27-2015, 02:26 AM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 193
Rewards Points: 2
Default


That is very informative, thank you, Nestor.
JourneymanBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 02:27 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 193
Rewards Points: 2
Default


As to the Romans, in Latin class we were told that the washed themselves with oil and a scraper.
JourneymanBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
anyone ever use ammonia to prep? pman6 Painting 1 05-08-2015 12:24 AM
Strong ammonia smell with Glidden 2in1 misswoosie Painting 30 10-27-2011 05:58 PM
Ohhhh the many uses for engine degreaser konsole Automotive Repairs 3 10-05-2010 01:05 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts