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Old 05-05-2014, 05:51 PM   #1
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Is this the right drainage pipe


I need to direct my roof rainwater from the downspout into a runoff box & then from the runoff box go 70 feet in length to the road tree line. I want to use 4" drainage pipe. The pipe is marked "3,000 PSI. I assume that this means it can withstand 3,000 PSI externally. That is to say it won't crush or split from outside pressure like a truck or tractor going over it when its burried. Also I live in upstate South Carolina. Here we do not have a official "Frost Line" so most water lines you will find burried out here, both supply & waste water are set generally no deeper than six or seven inches below grade, which will be the same for my line. That's why Im asking about the schedule 40 drain pipe I see but Im not sure it this is the right stuff. Its just rainwater take away into my roadside treeline. Is this the righ stuff to use. Thanks
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:27 PM   #2
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for roof runoff we use 4" sewer and drain ...but you could use sch 40 abs or pvc but you would need special connectors to connect to your downspout adapter...

Last edited by ben's plumbing; 05-05-2014 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:30 PM   #3
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I am not sure exactly what is written on the pipe, but there is no 3,000 psi drainage pipe that I have ever seen. Schedule 40 drainage pipe is about 80 psi at best. There is 3,000 psi special steel pipe for process piping, but you couldn't afford it, and you certainly won't find it in any big box store. Schedule 40 pipe is fine, or SDR 30 pipe is OK also. I like PVC pipe, but ABS is good too.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben's plumbing View Post
for roof runoff we use 4" sewer and drain 3,000 psi ...but you could use sch 40 abs or pvc but you would need special connectors to connect to your downspout adapter...
Thanks- It sounds like Im looking at the right stuff for this application. What is confusing to me is that "3,000 psi lable on the pipe. I know this stuff is not designed for internal pressure, so I guess the 3,000 psi is what it would take to destroy it from outside. Thank you!
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
I am not sure exactly what is written on the pipe, but there is no 3,000 psi drainage pipe that I have ever seen. Schedule 40 drainage pipe is about 80 psi at best. There is 3,000 psi special steel pipe for process piping, but you couldn't afford it, and you certainly won't find it in any big box store. Schedule 40 pipe is fine, or SDR 30 pipe is OK also. I like PVC pipe, but ABS is good too.
think he means 3000 lbs crush....glad you caught that psi
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
I am not sure exactly what is written on the pipe, but there is no 3,000 psi drainage pipe that I have ever seen. Schedule 40 drainage pipe is about 80 psi at best. There is 3,000 psi special steel pipe for process piping, but you couldn't afford it, and you certainly won't find it in any big box store. Schedule 40 pipe is fine, or SDR 30 pipe is OK also. I like PVC pipe, but ABS is good too.
Well all I can say is if you go to a Lowes store you will find pipe labeled 3,000 psi. Im sure it is making reference to external crush pressure & not internal pressure since I even know that would not be possible with a 4 inch drain pipe. But adding to my curiosity here Danniel, is your comment of what I "could not afford". Sounds like an uncalled for put down against someone you don't even know. Or am I just a sensitve guy??? Thanks anyway for your comment (on the pipe).
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog1 View Post
Well all I can say is if you go to a Lowes store you will find pipe labeled 3,000 psi. Im sure it is making reference to external crush pressure & not internal pressure since I even know that would not be possible with a 4 inch drain pipe. But adding to my curiosity here Danniel, is your comment of what I "could not afford". Sounds like an uncalled for put down against someone you don't even know. Or am I just a sensitve guy??? Thanks anyway for your comment (on the pipe).
hey maddog don't think dan meant it that way ..that pipe would be out of most homeowners price range ..and some contractors as well ....super expensive....thats not dans style.....
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by maddog1 View Post
Well all I can say is if you go to a Lowes store you will find pipe labeled 3,000 psi. Im sure it is making reference to external crush pressure & not internal pressure since I even know that would not be possible with a 4 inch drain pipe. But adding to my curiosity here Danniel, is your comment of what I "could not afford". Sounds like an uncalled for put down against someone you don't even know. Or am I just a sensitve guy??? Thanks anyway for your comment (on the pipe).
I would just chill.....and think about how many home uses require a four inch that will handle 3000 psi internal pressure. Like zero. And I would agree with Daniel. Most homeowners, including me, would knot need not be able to afford same. Typical street pressure around here is like 60 lbs psi plus or minus a bit. LONG way between that and 3000 psi! Ron
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog1 View Post
Well all I can say is if you go to a Lowes store you will find pipe labeled 3,000 psi. Im sure it is making reference to external crush pressure & not internal pressure since I even know that would not be possible with a 4 inch drain pipe. But adding to my curiosity here Danniel, is your comment of what I "could not afford". Sounds like an uncalled for put down against someone you don't even know. Or am I just a sensitve guy??? Thanks anyway for your comment (on the pipe).
Mad.... You honestly don't know Dan...... He meant a rational person can't afford that pipe for the application.

(And I am suspect that both you and he would have no troble buying it with cash)
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:35 PM   #10
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Oh... Just as curiousity..... love to see a pic of that at Lowes
.... just wondering what the confusion is....
...maybe a Chinese missed some American decimal points.
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben's plumbing View Post
think he means 3000 lbs crush....glad you caught that psi
Maybe, maybe not. Need a pic.

Flexural Strength on a pipe is expressed in PSI and indeed PVC can go up into the thousands.

The reason for the "PSI" rating is that when you bury a pipe it has an external pressure ALL AROUND it and not just on top of it.
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:26 PM   #12
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Ha! Funny. Just searching the net for some examples and I ran across this from another forum:

Quote:
Drain pipe under driveway

I need to connect some 4" corrugated pipe about 15' under a gravel driveway that gets occasional use (path to backyard) by my truck and rarely a skidsteer when I need to rent one. At Lowe's I see a thin white PVC "drain pipe" that says "1500 lbs crush" on it ($10). They also carry one that's green with flare at one end ($20) but says nothing about crush. The last choice is schedule 40 PVC which seems to be the most substantial but also says nothing about crush.

Which is the best bet? It can be buried only an inch or two deep then will be surfaced with gravel.

Also, how to connect PVC to the corrugated?

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Old 05-06-2014, 07:46 AM   #13
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My comment about the 3,000 psi pipe being too expensive had nothing to do with the OPS, I was simply pointing out that pipe with an internal pressure rating of 3,000 psi is specialty steel pipe, typically used for industrial use, very expensive, and unnecessary for drainage. My comment had nothing to do with the financial means of the OPS.

I think there are some marking issues on the pipes, which may be related to pipe strength rating. Many pipes are rated for allowable internal pressure. For example, the PEX water pipe I have in my basement is rated for 180 psi at 60 degrees F. The schedule 40 PVC drainage pipe I have around my house is rated for a burst pressure of 710 psi, and a maximum operating pressure of 133 psi (see http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pv...res-d_796.html). ABS pipe is similar.

Steel pipe can easily get to 3,000 psi burst or operating pressure, but you need very heavy weight, expensive pipe, so I have never seen it used for drainage. For example, Schedule 40 four inch black steel pipe has a burst strength of 6,300 psi, and a working strength of 1,400 psi. If you needed working strength of 3,000 psi, you would need to go to schedule 160 four inch steel pipe.

There are other ways to measure the strength of pipe. There is crushing strength, which is normally only applied to rigid pipe, not flexible pipe like PVC (see http://www.jmeagle.com/pdfs/Technica...rialforPVC.pdf) for a full discussion. There is also the possibility of measuring the bending strength of pipe the same way wood beams are measured, where you would have an allowable bending stress (allowable bending stress for wood is somewhere around 1,200 psi depending on species and grade).

The yield stress for PVC pipe is around 6,000 psi (see http://nova-docdb.fnal.gov/0003/000360/001/nova0060.pdf), so I suppose someone could have marked the yield or allowable stress on the PVC pipe. I have never seen this on PVC pipe I have worked with, because for pipe we normally only care about the internal pressure capability, and the crush strength is not relevant for flexible pipe.

Conclusion: I would like to see the markings on that pipe just for curiosity, but I can assure the OPS that Schedule 40 PVC works fine for drainage, and the 3,000 psi marking does not represent burst strength, or allowable pressure, at least for normally available plastic pipe.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sanders View Post
Maybe, maybe not. Need a pic.

Flexural Strength on a pipe is expressed in PSI and indeed PVC can go up into the thousands.

The reason for the "PSI" rating is that when you bury a pipe it has an external pressure ALL AROUND it and not just on top of it.

A picture would really help.

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Old 05-06-2014, 11:27 AM   #15
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Don't care for the sch 10, too brittle. Unless you plan on using the area as a driveway, use the sdr 30 (green), buried 8" down. You can drive most vehicles over it.

I never glued my downspout transition to the pipe, just let gravity keep it in place.
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