Does Your Job Require A Permit? - General DIY Discussions - Page 5 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Forum > General DIY Discussions

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 10-02-2007, 09:06 AM   #61
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,861
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default


I think permit is for minimum standard... so inspector only check for minimum standard... minimum standard does not include thing like if your stud is straight or banded...etc... they don't care cosmetic... they only concern the minimum/obvious fault... so that is why inspection are quick to them... they only want to see if you miss for example the plastic sheet for insulation..etc... if you had it... they don't give a damn on how straight nice you put it up...etc.
KUIPORNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2007, 03:48 PM   #62
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

taxachusetts


I do not have as much an issue with permits that I have with inspectors
I should be allowed to pull my own permits and have the work inspected for code,instead my options are to hire an overpriced licensed installer or do the work illegally. Why can't the inspector inspect my work? Does this have more to do with unions than safety!!!!
Denver has a system where you can get tested in order to be allowed to do your own work,while this is a nuisance it does favor both government and homeowner,everything gets done properly and legally
anileater is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2007, 05:05 PM   #63
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Live or let die


I bought our place here which had two sheds already built next to eachother. One is a 10X13 and newer and the other is 30X12 which is older but standing just fine. The older structure has overspanned 2X4 rafters at 24"OC supporting a Light metal roof. However, I would like to Repair sister and replace some of those rafters for safety reasons. In fact I'd like to add more rafters to bring them to 12"OC plus repair and sister. Living in Oregon the winters are mostly rain BUT things change and they are weather/climate wise. I would like the roof to be able to sustain the heavier snows when they come our way BUT due to the noncompliance issue in the codes I am not allowed to pull a permit to repair those rafters or make the roof stronger as that would increase the longevity of that structure and thereby increase the length of time of the noncompliance issue. That wall can be made fireproof and the small area between those two buildings can also be blocked off with fireproof material which would make the noncompliance issue for fire reasons nonexistent BUT apparently they'd rather allow disrepair to cause the thing to fall into an unsafe situation where it would need to be tore down. This is a waste of wood and energy and everythingelse to just allow the building to go to H*ll as opposed to just letting the permit be granted so it can be safely and legally repaired and brought to code and live and serve a useful purpose. But they'd rather let it fall down. Stupid in my opinion.
Simbabluenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2007, 07:52 PM   #64
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default


This is my first post.
I am wanting to finish my garage (adding drywall).
The detached garage dimensions are 18'x18', and currently uses 2"x4" joists (48"oc), and has two runs of enclosed wires outside the studs.
I am no licensed contractor, but the existing work looks pretty solid (wires are tied in nicely, run along top plates and enclosed, etc).

So, my plan is too:
- move 2 wires within the wall (tied in overhead from house, pipe enclosed)
- adding 2x6 joists (16"oc) across 18ft spans (following existing rafter count).
- insulate, 1/2" drywall, and paint.

Moving the two wires, is where the permit comes in.
Here in San Bernardino, CA the city tells me I would need a permit and 3 inspections and pay someone to design the layout. Each inspection will cost roughly 150-200 plus the permit.

I already have the materials, except for the 2x6.
The city has informed me that doing this with permits will cost roughly 700-800 bucks. The 2x6's will cost me less that 80 bucks.

It would be nice to do a project the correct way, with a permit, but the costs just doesn't justify it.
I just don't think it makes much sense. 80 bucks vs a possible 800 is crazy.
Even if I had the purchase the drywall, the cost would not be over 300.
What gets me is the price for such a thing. And to pay someone to design a wiring layout? All it takes is drill a few wholes, run the wires, close it up.

I am a pretty handy guy, I do alot of research before tackling DYI projects around the house, or fixing/making furniture.

This is San Bernardino, CA, and not the most nicest part of it. Where most people rent their homes, I take pride in owning, and making efforts to improve my home, which in turn improves the neighborhood.

I just don't think, its very encouraging to do this type of improvement with such a steep permit.

The other issue is, IF the existing detached garage didn't have a permit, when it was built (long before we bought it), apparently that is a deemed a special inspection and can run me another 550 bucks.

Doing with a permit can end up being well over a thousand bucks.

I am leaning towards just doing it to code.
My neighbors are pretty cool, I doubt they would turn me in.

Can anyone see my point here? Am I alone on this?
Am I better off getting one?
rariti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007, 08:28 PM   #65
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default


rariti,

I am in the same boat as you. Asking this forum of DIY'ers and professionals to explain their own opinion on why I should or shouldn't pull a permit to build. I personally feel very comfortable doing my own work to code without the inspector process. Like I said in my first post, I spent a ton of money pulling all necessary permits and in the end was left feeling like all I did was sign myself up on the "who can we tax more now that they've built something" list . I certainly didn't feel protected after the fact. I sold my home and nobody asked about the basement remodel or requested to see permits for the work done. But I had to go through the permit process the first time to understand it. Now I have an opinion on it. Doesn't mean I won't pull a permit on my next big project. Can't promise that I will either. I'm hoping I'll learn something from this forum on this topic. Good luck.
schnizzzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007, 09:58 PM   #66
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Exclamation

48"oc


rariti
That doesn't sound right. 2X4 joists running eighteen feet span at 48"OC is way over max load for 2X4s which is like only 12 feet at 24"OC. They must be supported somewhere by a wall or something? Are they ceiling or rafter joists? Not that it would matter if they were 48"OC they would still be way over max load and its lucky your garage is still standing.
If they are only 2X4s and they do span 18 feet and they are 48"OC and the garage *was* put up before you bought the place .... well, theres a GOOD Reason for pulling a permit. Or did I read the post wrong?
Simbabluenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 10:46 AM   #67
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Thanks schnizzzle and simbabluenobi for your replies.

I figured I couldn't be the only one. I too am perfectly comfortable with my own work.

As the the 48"oc, I failed to mention that there are 2x4 braces on top of the top plates as well, connecting adjacent walls. And to add, I will not be removing structure, but beefing it up.

The issue again is the wiring.

I spoke to a county inspector, his feedback was great. The county offers free pre-alter inspections to give the homeowner recommendations for putting a plan in place. They only charge 77 dollars for two inspections (before and after closing it in). His said my plan was good and more than enough. He knew exactly what I was talking about. Most of the garages here in San Bernardino are built the same. My next door neighbor garage is identical structure-wise. As mentioned, before I do any projects, I do research (buy books, get contractor feedback, tivo DIY, look up codes, etc).

I was very excited to get it going, until I found out that my address falls into "city" jurisdiction.

So now, for me to do this with a permit, I have to go to city hall, look up laserfiche records to see if a permit exists for the detached garage. Even if I want a new permit for the finishing my garage, there will not grant me one, unless there was an existing permit for the original build. If no permit exists then I gotta pay 550 bucks for a special inspection. So worse case scenario, for me to simply move the wires within the walls this could end up costing me well over 1600 (old permit, new permits and design).
When all I need to do is spend 80 bucks more.
So as it stands, I really don't see a reason to get one for simply moving wires into a wall to drywall the garage.

However, our other project, renovating the kitchen(next year) into more of a gourmet kitchen, I do see a justifiable reason for that. We are opening up the kitchen (removing a wall, putting in a header), and changing electrical, new cabinets, etc. That project is gonna be at least 10-15k (mostly cabinets, countertops and floor tiles). And the existing electrical is a mess. That will involve a contractor for the structure (header only) and electrician (tying into an updated panel only). Everything else, I can do.
rariti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 01:22 PM   #68
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Hi
rariti
The County inspector said no permit was needed to add rafters and Beef it up? But I thought the coding read something like Modification or alteration of rafters required structural permit?
That FREE County advise from an inspector sounds interesting eventhough it comes with locked in fees for inspection afterwards ....
Being up here and 18 minutes out of town might have more benefits than I realize. I DO plan to touch bases with them somehow after I get my (no permit needed) work done as I really would like to be able to fix (beef up) my rafters and roof in doing so.
Simbabluenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 06:14 PM   #69
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Hi Simba,
The county indicated that the current garage meets minimum code. The permit is required because of the electrical (moving a wire into the wall). The beefing up I am doing is additive, doesn't remove existing structure. the 18ft spanned 2x4's 48"oc insn't adequate to hang drywall, due to the weight of the drywall and the 48"oc. He informed me that 2x6's 16"oc is more than adequate for drywall. The strength is in the 16"oc. The safety issue is preventing the drywall from falling on somebody.

When I initially spoke to him, he was stumped. Because as far as he knew, simply drywalling your garage doesn't need a permit, especially if the existing structure meets code. He consulted a couple of his senior inspectors, and they concurred... in SB county, as long as it meets minimum, adding joists won't need a permit.

The cheaper county permit would have been ideal for me at 77 bucks for 2 inspections. But of course mine is a city issue, which could result in well over a grand in permits, for simply moving wires into the wall.

So for those of you who live out of town, it might be worthwhile, to check if you fall into city or county jurisdiction. Apparently, here in cali anyways... county offices have more funding than city.
rariti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 11:13 PM   #70
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Smile

additive


Hi rariti
Additive. hmmm not modifying structural as its additive. If I think about that a bit I just might solve my Ceiling and rafter problems I have in my shed/barn by adding 2X6s.
Good Luck
Beet
Simbabluenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2007, 05:25 PM   #71
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Permits may have their place... but. In order for me to *legally* use my storage structure to store inventory, I have to apply for and be granted a change of use. I can use the structure to store tools and household stuff BUT if I want to keep anything related to my gift shop in it I have to pay for and be granted a permit with other *brought to code* requirements. This is pure gimmee your money beuracracy and it isn't right. The structure would still be used for storage in either case whether it be my personal stuff or my *soleproprietor business* inventory. Noone would go into the structure except myself and possibly wife in both cases but because I'd want to store that extra 2 dozen of whatever from my business in there they'd want permit and money and perhaps structural modifications. What the ** is the difference in what I store there as it is still all MY stuff. The Crap you get into when you try to follow their rules and play their game ... no wonder so many businesses I know of sidestep the permit process. I originally called about adding rafters so I could make the roof more structurally sound and insulate and I wanted to be all legal about it despite numerous people saying JUST DO IT. They make it hard for the little guys yet allow all sorts of variances and loopholes for the WalMarts of the world.
Simbabluenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2007, 10:01 AM   #72
window maker
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: dobidoo
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Here in my country, the local government seem so lax at permits and the jobs especially small ones like carpentry do not require to have permits, just a sort of a building permit for constructing little changes to the house or patio.

But usually, there is no need to get one especially if it's just some small bit of work required to finish it.
windowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 09:14 PM   #73
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Hi guys! First post and I'm sorry to say that it is a question about building permits and my lack of knowledge on such things.

I just recently bought my first home and one of the things that came up in the home inspection was water damage in the bathroom. I started tearing into it and it ended up being a lot worse than what I thought. The basement ceiling was "finished" with loosely hung foam-board so everything bad was hidden and not picked up in the inspection. We're talking floors rotted through and joists being damaged.

I have the money and decided to do a complete renovation of the bathroom, including moving two walls to make it larger and fix everything as I go. My problem is that I've never had ANY experience with building permits, even though I've worked for a contractor for many years. I was just never involved in the process and never understood what all they were required for. I've always thought permits were only for exterior additions or any changes made to your lot.

My question is how much trouble could I get in? I've already torn out some electrical work, plumbing and a wall and have just recently been learning about what permits are needed. Even the contractor that I worked for said NOTHING about needing permits for what I was doing. I feel like an idiot asking but I need to know what to do. Do I continue doing my work? Even if I'm very meticulous, which I always am, it sounds like I could get into a lot of trouble.
MaroonStangMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 06:14 AM   #74
Lic. Builder/GC/Remodeler
 
AtlanticWBConst.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 7,556
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Maroon,

If you have started the process and are in the middle of this renovation, just go down to the local inspectional offices and tell them that a minor bathroom face-lift job, "grew" and that you would like to pull a permit before you go any further.
Believe it or not, it is very commonf for minor jobs or minor repairs to "grow" during their process. There are many times that we have had to run out and get a permit because a small project grew into something bigger, or rot/damage was found that required replacing large areas of a home's structure.

There is this inate "fear" of building inspectors due to "urban legend tale-horror stories" spread by 3rd parties or a few bad experiences by that a very small number of people have experienced. We have never had a bad experience in 22 years of pulling permits and getting inspections in many different towns. I've been quite "blown-away" by some of the very understanding experiences that we have seen or been part of, when dealing with inspectors and inspection offices.

That's my 2 cents.
__________________
- Build Well -
AtlanticWBConst. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2007, 08:03 AM   #75
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Thanks Atlantic! Your response is definitely appreciated. I've just started reading through these forums and it certainly sounds like your advice is very highly regarded!

The only thing I'm worried about now is that I found out through some coworkers that the township requires a licensed plumber to do any work.

This could get hairy and expensive beyond what I was hoping to spend or could afford as a new home owner. The previous owners did a lot of bad work and then covered it up. Once I took down the ceiling in the basement, there were loads of what I'm sure are code violations with electrical, plumbing and even structural. For crying out loud they had a spool of hot wire just rolled up in the wall that led to nothing!!! God knows what all the inspector will see or make me do.

Perhaps I will try to fix most of it before contacting them or I should have just waited until I was settled in.
MaroonStangMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Renovation without permit hoffa02 General DIY Discussions 6 07-23-2007 08:47 PM
No Permit for my Porch and Deck jokiddjr Building & Construction 15 06-13-2007 10:34 AM
Permit For Cement Work LOULUVSLORR Building & Construction 1 02-24-2007 07:39 AM
plumbing permit drawing sprengle1 Plumbing 1 01-21-2006 04:36 PM
Do I need a permit? 3-4-5 Building & Construction 1 12-24-2005 12:01 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts