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Old 07-04-2019, 09:48 PM   #1
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Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


Hi all, I'd like to add a second full bath in the basement before tearing into the main bathroom renovations. This means expanding the existing 2 piece which just barely meets the bare minimum to be called a bathroom (seriously, it's bad).

Anyway, what I'd like to do is to rip out the existing 2 piece, expand it, redo the plumbing, and put in a 3 piece bath. I've installed a bathroom before, done plumbing, and framing. However, none of the above was in the basement. I'm most unsure of how to go about framing (especially on the exterior wall).

The current bathroom has no framing on the exterior concrete wall. This also means no insulation on that wall. It's actually not bad in terms of temperature but I think it should still have some insulation.

I guess my first question is do I 100% need insulation on the exterior wall? If so, can I just insulate the 9' section of exterior wall that the bathroom touches?

How about the wall that will be shared with the unfinished basement? Does that need any insulation?

I've attached the existing and proposed floor plans.
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Adding bathroom to unfinished basement-floorplanproposed.png   Adding bathroom to unfinished basement-floorplanexisting.png  
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:46 PM   #2
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


I would certainly recommend insulating the outside wall. There are many ways to do it but the most common way is to glue foam sheets against the wall and then frame a wall inside of that. Whether you insulate the interior walls depends on what the temperature is in your basement and if you want to have conditioning in the bathroom. It's certainly not required but you may want it for my comfort point of view. Also, insulating the interior walls would help soundproofing if that's a concern.

There are many other threads here that discuss the complete techniques for insulating basement walls.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:00 PM   #3
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


We leave a 1 inch space but I think in Ontario the foam is a good plus like this.
But you want to rip up the floor first and plan out the plumbing.
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:16 AM   #4
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


Neither of your drawings show access doors to the bathrooms. Very important as far as where things can be located. How much space is there between your toilet and the concrete wall? If 4" or so, I would frame up the wall and leave it in place. It will save a bunch of concrete tear out and patch up. Putting the shower to the right (per the drawing) of the sink would make better sense due to the same reason. Low impact on concrete cutting.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:07 AM   #5
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


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We leave a 1 inch space but I think in Ontario the foam is a good plus like this.

But you want to rip up the floor first and plan out the plumbing.
I think this may be the wrong video
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:10 AM   #6
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


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the most common way is to glue foam sheets against the wall and then frame a wall inside of that.
Yeah I've been reading up a bunch on that method and that was what I was thinking of doing. Are there any concerns with just insulating the 9' section the bathroom is on? You'd basically see the edge of the foam board from the unfinished section. I'm not sure if I need to worry about sealing it from air or what other considerations there are if I'm not insulating that whole wall.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:14 AM   #7
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


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Originally Posted by chandler48 View Post
Neither of your drawings show access doors to the bathrooms. Very important as far as where things can be located. How much space is there between your toilet and the concrete wall? If 4" or so, I would frame up the wall and leave it in place. It will save a bunch of concrete tear out and patch up. Putting the shower to the right (per the drawing) of the sink would make better sense due to the same reason. Low impact on concrete cutting.
In the existing setup the door is directly across from the sink and opens outwards. In the proposed plan I'd leave it across from the sink and have it open in.

I'm attaching a picture here but there is no room between the concrete and the toilet unfortunately. So If I'm insulating then I have no choice but to break the concrete up. The shower doesn't really work to the right because there is a window there which complicates things. I have waterproofed a window in a shower out of necessity but it's something I'd rather avoid.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:18 AM   #8
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


The farther the toilet is from the stack the higher the end of pipe will rise (obviously). You're moving it like 8' away + another 4' turn, so make sure the existing wye is low enough to not affect the slope.

Also, I gather you want to make it permanently nicer, thinking about insulation and such, but is that the water heater to be in the bathroom?

Also also, the door looks like it only can open into the sink, so you have to negotiate around it to get to the toilet or shower. Hopefully you're not swinging it outward.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:25 AM   #9
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


That's a good point about making sure there is enough fall with that toilet placement. That might affect my layout.


The water tank looking thing is actually a water softener, that may or may not end up inside the washroom. If it was in there it would be closed off with a closet on top but I may end up moving it outside the bathroom as well.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:34 AM   #10
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


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The water tank looking thing is actually a water softener,
Where's the floor drain for that?
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:42 AM   #11
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


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Where's the floor drain for that?

The softener actually drains into the laundry sink next to it, however there is also a floor drain roughly where the two new walls intersect
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:44 PM   #12
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


First of all, why WOULDN'T you want to insulate your walls? Heat always migrates to cold. You can find insulation that has chases built into it for electrical as well as strips 16" on center for attaching drywall. Check This Old House's website for a video on it.

Second, where are your stairs coming down into the basement? Is there a door at the top and bottom?

What will you do with your water softener and slop sink? Are they going to stay down there?

I think it is great that you are adding another bath. I would suggest making the shower larger, you will be surprised at how much use it will get. Make it 36x60 or the size of a basic tub. That way, if you want to change it into a tub/shower at some point, it will be easier to do so.

Adding a second bath will increase the value of your home more than most things. Especially going from 1 to 2. And if you add another bedroom down there it will increase your value more as well.
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:32 PM   #13
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Re: Adding bathroom to unfinished basement


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Second, where are your stairs coming down into the basement? Is there a door at the top and bottom?
Stairs come down at the left side of the rec room where the opening is. There is no door at the top or the bottom. There is a door going from the rec room to the unfinished space but I think I will remove that once I finish the left side of the existing laundry room.

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What will you do with your water softener and slop sink? Are they going to stay down there?
Probably both staying down there at least for now. I might move laundry upstairs at a later date.

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I think it is great that you are adding another bath. I would suggest making the shower larger, you will be surprised at how much use it will get. Make it 36x60 or the size of a basic tub.
I'd like to do this but the opening to the crawlspace limits me to about 4' inside the bathroom. I guess I could make an irregular shaped washroom or put the tub along the long wall.
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