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Old 10-23-2016, 11:46 PM   #16
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
If you mark the bottom plate as I described and use a compound square to mark from the outside edge of the slab to the center of the bolt and mark the plate it will line up when you stand the wall up.
Once the walls built laying down you square it up by checking the corners to make sure there the same length if you have more then one person on hand to do the lift you can add the sheathing to hold it square.
A whole lot easier laying flat then trying to hold sheathing up on the side of a wall after the walls already up.
Openings for windows and door need to be framed before adding the sheathing, but it can be all cut out for the openings once all the walls are up.
I agree... and that would be exactly how I suspect 90% of homes are built... it is alot easier and clearly what I would prefer.

Except when you have 2 ft or 6" J bolt spacing along a long wall. If I recall correctly, your maximum J bolt hole is only 1/8 over your J bolt size... be it 1/2 or 5/8 anchors. I'm just saying, that can be a tough stab when J bolts are not perfectly vertical, the wall is heavy, no mater how carefully you measure out your sill.bottom plate.

The tolerances are difficult, even when you use Simpson anchor bolt snaps.

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Old 10-23-2016, 11:49 PM   #17
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
If you mark the bottom plate as I described and use a compound square to mark from the outside edge of the slab to the center of the bolt and mark the plate it will line up when you stand the wall up.
Once the walls built laying down you square it up by checking the corners to make sure there the same length if you have more then one person on hand to do the lift you can add the sheathing to hold it square.
A whole lot easier laying flat then trying to hold sheathing up on the side of a wall after the walls already up.
Openings for windows and door need to be framed before adding the sheathing, but it can be all cut out for the openings once all the walls are up.
I agree... and that would be exactly how I suspect 90% of homes are built... it is alot easier and clearly what I would prefer.

Except when you have 2 ft or 6" J bolt spacing along a long wall. If I recall correctly, your maximum J bolt hole is only 1/8 over your J bolt size... be it 1/2 or 5/8 anchors. I'm just saying, that can be a tough stab when J bolts are not perfectly vertical, the wall is heavy, no mater how carefully you measure out your sill.bottom plate.

The tolerances are difficult, even when you use Simpson anchor bolt snaps. You can try to use a cheater and straighten up non-vertical J bolts.... but it is difficult to alighn all your sill/bottom plate holes when there are many.

Maybe you guys have not had that problem.... maybe it's easier if you have a lift and not trying to stab it with a couple of you.

If you "double plate" it, you can put a couple of stop blocks in and tip that sheathed wall right up with just two men.

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Last edited by MTN REMODEL LLC; 10-23-2016 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:57 PM   #18
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Sorry about the double post... I went to add some editing, and somehow it got double posted.... maybe it's like a double sill/bottom plate.
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:42 AM   #19
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Wouldn't it be even easier to take the bottom plate, determine where the holes need to be, drill them, lay it over the j bolts to do a fit test, then build the wall, then raise it?

And as far as using the sheathing to hold it square. You wouldn't sheath the entire wall would you? Just enough to hold it square? Aren't you going to end up having the edge of the bottom sheathing hanging over the concrete a bit?
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:09 AM   #20
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


I don't see an edit, but I just had another question I wanted to add. I'm going through reading the threads again because there is a lot of good information. Maybe this is a silly or obvious question.

Some of you mentioned jbolts not being straight Joe, you said to measure from the outside edge of the slab to the center of the bolt. So I would measure from the edge of the slab to the center of the jbolt at it's base near the concrete and that would put my bottom plate lined up with the edge of slab once my holes are drilled.

Since this is a slab and isn't going to be as far from the ground as something with a crawlspace or basement would it make more sense to set the walls back 1/2 an inch and let the sheathing be flush with the edge of the slab? And as far as a drip edge I can use a drip cap or flashing of some kind along with insulation tape and then that along with the siding would all account for the drip edge and keeping water away?

If you do have the sheathing flush how would the slab would you even be able to add the sheathing while the wall is on the ground? because wouldn't you have to account for the height of the sill sealer. Meaning the sheathing would need to be just a bit lower than the wall itself?

And if you did make it flush you'd want probably a 1/8 gap between the slab and sheathing right?
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:50 AM   #21
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Research brick ledge, even though you may not brick it, and you'll see how drainage is accomplished with the frame flat on the concrete.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:17 AM   #22
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


I'd want the sheathing to run past the slab to help keep out water and air.
It's a whole lot easier to install the sheathing with the wall laying flat,
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:40 AM   #23
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


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I'd want the sheathing to run past the slab to help keep out water and air.
It's a whole lot easier to install the sheathing with the wall laying flat,
With a slab, here the code is a minimum of 6 inches above grade. So if someone does the minimum what would be the ideal distance you'd want the sheathing above the ground? Run past probably 2 inches I'm guessing, leaving 4 between it and the ground?
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:47 AM   #24
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


I did not see where you are, so.... Are you going to insulate the edge of, and under, the slab w/ rigid foam? Just curious, not over-thinking. BTW: That is not such a small living space. I've heard rumors that people have lived in places that size since about 2,017 BC.....Cheers. john
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:09 PM   #25
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


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I did not see where you are, so.... Are you going to insulate the edge of, and under, the slab w/ rigid foam? Just curious, not over-thinking. BTW: That is not such a small living space. I've heard rumors that people have lived in places that size since about 2,017 BC.....Cheers. john
Tulsa, OK area. I am going to insulate the walls which in turn will insulate the edges. I am not going to insulate under or outside the slab.
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:41 AM   #26
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


3700 heating degree days; moderate climate. it would likely pay to do so. good luck w/ the place.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:10 AM   #27
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


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3700 heating degree days; moderate climate. it would likely pay to do so. good luck w/ the place.
I was thinking initially something like this minus the insulation on the outside of the sheathing and minus the insulation in the ground. Basically the under piece and the piece at the edge of the slab. But I was told it wouldn't really add much benefit and would just rot out.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:10 AM   #28
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


My link got cut out of my last reply...

http://foundationhandbook.ornl.gov/h...-09_no-cap.png
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:36 PM   #29
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Attached is my stem wall and insulation. It is gross overkill for Tulsa, but the concept would be the same were I to build in Tulsa. In your link, I see no reason to leave the edge of the slab uninsulated at the bottom. I've heard that leaving that uncovered lets you "keep the edge warm", which is exactly true and exactly why it should be insulated. Why send BTU's out the door needlessly? As for rotting, that may well be true because I see a vapor barrier in your drawing. Both it and the rigid foam will inhibit moisture travel, so a damp wall will stay so. I did not use a vapor barrier as some builders are getting away from them; air sealing is the name of the game, yet letting the wall dry in both directions if possible. With a REMOTE-type wall (Google "REMOTE wall". cchrc.org has great info on it), vapor is pretty well stopped from moving in one direction. I would not use both the rigid foam on the outside of the wall and a vapor barrier inside. Buildingscience.com has lots of info on all this, if you have time to dig. I would absolutely use rigid foam to wrap the slab, especially at the vertical edge, where the concrete sees the weather. As for thickness of foam around the slab, you'll have to run some numbers to find the "I'll never pay for this" point. I would guess about 3"-4" at the edge, and 2" underneath, from you heating degree days. LOTS of decisions the owner can only make based on his/her goals, etc. Best to you. john
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Old 11-03-2016, 02:23 PM   #30
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Re: When building on a slab do you attached the stud wall directly to slab?


Bolts that are not truly plumb can be straightened by spinning a nut onto them and using a snipe (pipe) or a hammer to true them up. Use the nut so you don't wreck the threads.
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