DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (https://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Building & Construction (https://www.diychatroom.com/f19/)
-   -   Suspended Drywall Ceiling from I-joists in Basement?? (https://www.diychatroom.com/f19/suspended-drywall-ceiling-i-joists-basement-2472/)

Babs 05-10-2006 10:01 AM

Suspending a Ceiling from Trus I-joists in Basement??
 
I'm planning a theater room in the basement, so soundproofing the ceiling will be crucial. I'm building a chase around HVAC ducts running across the room and drywalling, easy enough.

In the front section there's some wiring.

in the rear section there's 3/4" (I think) condenser lines and 3" sch.40 PVC drain lines and some more wiring suspended below the I-joists.

I probably wouldn't ever need to access any of it except in the case of some very unusual situation, however, I'll have to cover it up either with a conventional drop grid ceiling (my least favorite) and lose the soundproofing capability.

An alternative would be some kind of dropped drywall system that might possibly suspend hat channel to attach drywall to.. ??

I was hoping on two layers of drywall ceiling with acoustic glue between the layers which provides great soundproofing to the floor above.

Any suggestions? I did see an Armstrong product but not sure if they standard guy can go down to the typical home depot and buy it.

robertcdf 05-11-2006 09:04 AM

Just frame boxes around it and drywall it.

Babs 05-12-2006 11:47 AM

Ya know.. That's the ticket I think.. I'm already planning on boxing in a chase around the main center lam joist and the two air ducts running across the room.

1. Is it prudent or acceptable framing to basically frame a complete lower ceiling surface in the whole area with 2x4's or other?

The layout is two ceiling areas, front and rear, with the chase running cross-ways.
Front area is 12' x 20' roughly.
Rear area is 9' x 18' roughly <-- requiring the ceiling drop covering the wiring/plumbing.

2. What's the best or accepted technique for attaching the box-work to the I-joists?

I imagine a solid frame would be attached by vertical 2x4's running up beside the joist and attached to wood blocks screwed to both sides of the inner webbing.. rather than just screwing runners to the bottom of the flange. If I could attach a picture here I could show what I mean easier.

From what I've read of the specs, appears the flange is where the strength is for the tji beam to support the floor above. Never notch, though screwing into the ends is ok, I suppose. and going through the web is ok within their specs for web stiffeners, or holes for wiring/plumbing etc. If I were REALLY any good, I could just reroute the stuff through the beams themselves, but I don't want to compromise them with 3" plumbing, electrical and condenser lines.

Also, how about something like simpson strong-ties to do the drop?

AtlanticWBConst. 05-12-2006 06:53 PM

You could also use what is called 'acoustic' Sheetrock. The Brand is called: "Quiet Rock".

We just priced out a Doctor's executive office remodeling - in a Hospital.

Cost per 4x8 foot 5/8" sheet delivered in my area (Boston, MA) is:


ONLY $130.00 per sheet!!:D

Babs 05-15-2006 01:15 PM

Yeah that stuff is silly expensive.

Ok, so my current options are:
1. Frame in a dropped plane to drywall to, suspended from the I-joists, hiding the utilities. Soundproofing level: fairly good. Looks: great.

2. Give up and do a grid and panels. Soundproofing poor at best but absorption levels not too bad inside the room. (Home theater so that's a good thing). And accessible for A/V wiring, etc.

All this for two drain lines, some water lines and a couple condenser lines.. Maybe I should just relocate them up through the joists?? The webbing of TJI's can be cut through within pretty specific specs for piping.

robertcdf 05-15-2006 11:00 PM

You could drop the whole ceiling if you like. We have done this many times when the box around takes up a majority of the room. You can use 2x4 and attach them with legs to joists. I would frame it kind of like a deck. A "ledger" and a "rim" with "joists" if the 2x4's are on "edge" I would attach legs every 7-8 feet of span.

DaveH 06-08-2006 01:02 PM

Sheetrock is not much of a sound deadener. If you intend to control sound passage from the basement thru to the upstairs you need to consider two things. Ambient sound and vibration. The 1st is are sound waves themselves. Batt insulation will take care of this 6" /R-19. Next is the vibration that will also carry thru. At your local drywall supply house they will have an RC1 channel that you apply to your framing members. These metal strips help neutralize the vibrations and stop them from transferring right thru the floor.

J187 06-08-2006 01:42 PM

Sounds like you are very serious about eliminating sound here, but a family friend had a home theater professionally done in his house a year ago. $75K! They used armstrong sound control panels in a standard drop ceiling, he's got very little noise above.

I myself have the Armstrong Brighton panels in a suspended ceiling I recently did, I can't hear anything from my home theater in the upstairs. I have a split-level home and my theater is in my basement. Again, I'm not using the most powerful equipment, but I do have 200w speakers and a 300w sub....

Babs 06-08-2006 03:31 PM

Thanks for the info.. Yeah after a while and talking to a bunch of people, I've resigned myself to having to settle with a standard dropped ceiling, though I not so crazy about the looks.. Not much alternative out there it seems.. As far as soundproofing goes, I figure if I have to do a drop I can at least make sure to get a lot of insulation between the joists and maybe even sheets of board insulation underneath the joists, above the drain piping. That should help at least.

There are some other ceiling systems I've seen out there but I'm hearing they're super expensive, such as Owens Corning Solserene.. Which is a suspended stretched fabric ceiling method using tracks and a special fabric material.. From brochures anyway, they look gorgeous, and can even handle can lighting it appears. So I'm also looking at alternative brands as I'm hearing the solserene product is silly expensive. Couple names come to mind like wallmate or fabricmate or fabritrak, etc.. but I'm not sure if their products work on ceilings as well as walls.

J187 06-08-2006 04:18 PM

You know, I wasn't crazy about the looks either when I first started mine. But there are definitely options to make it nicer, just choose the tile pattern carefully. I LOVE my brighton panels now. The 2x2 looks considerably better than 2x4 in my opinion. If you're not terrible rushed to get the thing done, you'd have a ton more options special ordering. A quick tip, if you are going to do recessed lighting in the panels, the small, square recessed fixtures look dynamite centered in a 2x2 panel. Way, way better than circular cans if you ask me. Just make sure you don't spend so much money on the ceiling that you find yourself with entry-level JBL floor standers or something :eek:

ls1chris 06-08-2006 05:35 PM

Babs>> could you possibly post pics of what you are doing? i have been a drywall contractor for approx 18+yrs and have seen and done it all, i'm sure you can achieve exactly what you want with steel channel (steel studs) res bar , without having to sacrifice headroom or looks, as for t-bar grid type systemsd i'm quite sure it looks good to those who have this system but personally ( this is just my opion and i'm entitled to free speech i think) when ever i see this in a friends home it always makes me think it looks like a DYI basement or a dental office instead of a addition to a home.

Bonus 06-08-2006 11:46 PM

I'll add my 2 cents, too. A friend of mine bought a house recently and there was a t-bar drop ceiling in one room. She hated it, but had little money for renos. She got a bunch of cloth, pulled the panels, wrapped them with the cloth and replaced them, instant new ceiling! Washable too.:D

Babs 06-09-2006 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls1chris
Babs>> could you possibly post pics of what you are doing? i have been a drywall contractor for approx 18+yrs and have seen and done it all, i'm sure you can achieve exactly what you want with steel channel (steel studs) res bar , without having to sacrifice headroom or looks, as for t-bar grid type systemsd i'm quite sure it looks good to those who have this system but personally ( this is just my opion and i'm entitled to free speech i think) when ever i see this in a friends home it always makes me think it looks like a DYI basement or a dental office instead of a addition to a home.

New to this forum but maybe I can try it.. Here's a pic of my rendering that show the ceiling layout in the room.. I'm sorry I don't have pictures, but will try to take some of the unfinished area.

If anyone is interested, I did the renderings in Sketchup, which is a free 3D program. Super easy to use.

To describe, a chase/soffit will be framed in left to right to cover airducts not-shown running parallel to the big Glu-Lam joists running across the middle. I can drywall that easy enough.

Not shown.. In the front under joists, there's plenty of electrical running across the front block wall. In the rear, there's some 3" Sch 40 Drain and 2" vent piping below the studs, along with small copper lines too/from the air handler (far left of the room next to block wall) so I have about 7-8 inches of obstruction on the left side of the rear of the room-to-be by those drainlines below the joists. It's kind of like two rooms with a soffit dividing them.

I'm sorry I don't have pics but I hope this gives you an idea.. I can shoot other view angles if you like very easily though.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/507/BasementLatest.jpg

Babs 06-09-2006 12:56 PM

I agree with your opinion on basement drop ceilings.. Though some artistic things can be done to make them look good, such as soffits with grid in the middle, canlighting, etc.

The look of this stretched fabric ceiling struck me though as a pretty cool alternative.. Though pricey, to say the least if you went with the Owens product..

http://www.owenscorning.com/quietzone/images/fabric.jpg

The idea of dropping or suspending drywall suggests having to frame in a complete "sub-joist" nailer system if I did it in lumber, unless possibly somehow hanging U-channel or something like that to the I-joists somehow, then running hat channel perpendicular to it..

There are some cool soundproofing/suspending products to do that with by either PAC International or Kinetics Noise Control.. Also pricey but much higher soundproofing performance because you can hang drywall to it and they use decoupling clips to attach the hat channel to.. It's a big thing over at AVS Forum, however I've not found the best method to drop 7-8 inches from joist to hat channel.

Babs 06-14-2006 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls1chris
Babs>> could you possibly post pics of what you are doing? i have been a drywall contractor for approx 18+yrs and have seen and done it all, i'm sure you can achieve exactly what you want with steel channel (steel studs) res bar , without having to sacrifice headroom or looks, as for t-bar grid type systemsd i'm quite sure it looks good to those who have this system but personally ( this is just my opion and i'm entitled to free speech i think) when ever i see this in a friends home it always makes me think it looks like a DYI basement or a dental office instead of a addition to a home.

How about this alternative.. I threw an idea into sketchup here..

Basically, using hat channel (drywall nailer). But instead of nailing to the joists, which can't be done due to the piping suspended under, this idea drops the channel from 2x4's suspended from web stiffeners on the Trus joists. I think this is what robertcdf was pointing to in his above post.

Is it Kosher? Structurally ok?
I joists are 16" oc and I spaced the channel 24 OC though 16 would be easy enough and could hang to every other vs every third joist if needed.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/507...iling_idea.gif


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.