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Old 06-07-2019, 10:21 AM   #31
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rockman413 View Post
Got ya that Protector Plate Steel Stud is to protect the wire.

Now, if you said if worry that post gonna make my house fall down
---> Seriously, do you think the stud, got cut too much, will possibly be weak to cause the house down? Will possibly be weak during earthquake comparing normal cut stud?

I can definitely put a 2X4 beside it, since now you said the bottom is strong enough to hold. But I don't understand what you mean by the L shape, I think I can just sister the main stud with a 2X4 at the left (2 is facing me)
I don't know how many different ways to say it. Put the 2x4 there, you will find the wire is in the way so turn the 2x4 sideways and put right next the that stud so you nail thru the fat side of the old into the skinny side of the new.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:55 PM   #32
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
I don't know how many different ways to say it. Put the 2x4 there, you will find the wire is in the way so turn the 2x4 sideways and put right next the that stud so you nail thru the fat side of the old into the skinny side of the new.
Oh I see what you mean by the L shape. I can definitly do this and I will be facing the "4" inch side.

But I also want to know the answer to this question: Do you think seriouly I should be concerned about that middle post stud being cut too much, will that weaken my house in regular times and in earthquake times? I mean, I can definitly do the sistering 2X4, but I also want to know this question if I don't sister it.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:53 AM   #33
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Originally Posted by rockman413 View Post
Oh I see what you mean by the L shape. I can definitly do this and I will be facing the "4" inch side.

But I also want to know the answer to this question: Do you think seriouly I should be concerned about that middle post stud being cut too much, will that weaken my house in regular times and in earthquake times? I mean, I can definitly do the sistering 2X4, but I also want to know this question if I don't sister it.
The 2x4 on the flat is overkill for what is missing. Then you can stop worrying.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:28 AM   #34
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
The 2x4 on the flat is overkill for what is missing. Then you can stop worrying.
If I do one 2X4, should I also do the wood jamb ?
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:17 PM   #35
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Originally Posted by rockman413 View Post
If I do one 2X4, should I also do the wood jamb ?
I am not sure what a wood jamb is?
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:26 PM   #36
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


The recommended protector plate is for a 2x4, but the post where it would be installed is actually wider than a 2x4 -- looks like a 4x4 to me. Though I like the protector plate concept, not sure if they offer one for 4x4's.

Also, as for a jamb block in the post, I don;t think it's necessary because the uncut portion of the post is actually larger than a stud when looking at it from a sideways perspective.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:27 PM   #37
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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The recommended protector plate is for a 2x4, but the post where it would be installed is actually wider than a 2x4 -- looks like a 4x4 to me. Though I like the protector plate concept, not sure if they offer one for 4x4's.

Also, as for a jamb block in the post, I don;t think it's necessary because the uncut portion of the post is actually larger than a stud when looking at it from a sideways perspective.
Then do you think , if I sister it with one or two 2X4, or put in jamb block, will harm anything such as putting too much weight to the bottom plates (some of which are missing but I was told it's ok)
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:17 AM   #38
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


As already mentioned, the weight of another stud or two on the bottom plate is insignificant, and that should not be your concern (my opinion). You see, all of the load bearing weight from above that wall structure is already being transferred to the bottom plate. If you add more stud cross sectional area to the top of the plate, you're actually helping the sole plate integrity (slightly) by "spreading the existing load" over a slightly larger surface area on top of the plate -- this reduces the lbs/sq.in point loading as everything sits today.

If you feel better by installing sistered studs, then by all means, do so. Same for the filler block. After all, you're the one who has to sleep with it at night, and you should feel confident and comfortable with your solution.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:03 AM   #39
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Originally Posted by F250 View Post
As already mentioned, the weight of another stud or two on the bottom plate is insignificant, and that should not be your concern (my opinion). You see, all of the load bearing weight from above that wall structure is already being transferred to the bottom plate. If you add more stud cross sectional area to the top of the plate, you're actually helping the sole plate integrity (slightly) by "spreading the existing load" over a slightly larger surface area on top of the plate -- this reduces the lbs/sq.in point loading as everything sits today.

If you feel better by installing sistered studs, then by all means, do so. Same for the filler block. After all, you're the one who has to sleep with it at night, and you should feel confident and comfortable with your solution.
Thank you for such detailed explain! Feel way better!

1.From a purely-technical view, can I understand that sister studs, no matter 1 or 2 , comparing to fill the block, is actually the same for strongness of my house?

2. I just want to know, that the workers cut that hole too much, would actually weak my stud/my house? Is it reasonable to hold him liable for such cut too much (about 1/2 of the whole stud, what's the cutting standard by the way? is it not to exceed 1/2 of the whole stud?)? or technically he does nothing wrong according to the code.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:24 AM   #40
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


1. What was cut is not a "stud", but a 4x4 "post".

2. The intent of cutting the slot was to only go half way through and leave you with an effective 2x4 "stud" support, but at right angles to the other studs. The contractors cutting was very sloppy, and actually cut too deeply on the right side of the post (past the half way point). The final effect is that your post is weakened by the "too deep" cut on the one side. Sistering on one side would help. Sistering on BOTH sides would be overkill, but much better. Another option would be to disconnect wiring, remove post, replace the post with a pair of sistered studs side-by-side with only a hole cut through the stud centers, re-run the wire.

3. Common wire routing is with a hole drilled through the center of the stud, not a square cornered slot. Stresses concentrate at the corners of a square or rectangular cut where they do not concentrate at all on a round hole.

4. Contractor should be held responsible for making the corrections (either sistering with round hole wire routing, or post replacement with new stud which has the proper round hole wire routing - if the install requires a post there for some reason, sistered studs with a round wiring hole would also work).

5. I can't speak to your code, but only to the potential impact of square notches versus round holes on stress, and the impact of load surface area on carrying capacities.

6. The sheetrock on the side where your wire is resting is not secured to the post, thereby leaving a gap for the wire to drop into between the back side of the sheetrock and the face of the post... unsafe because someone can drive a nail into the wiring too easily... that's why the wire routing needs to be restricted to a smaller diameter round hole (1/2" or 5/8" diameter MAX) in the center of the stud/post.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:13 PM   #41
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


Thank you for such brilliant answers! Really helpful, I wish I can give you a star!

2. The intent of cutting the slot was to only go half way through and leave you with an effective 2x4 "stud" support, but at right angles to the other studs.
---> not understanding "right angles to the other studs"

The contractors cutting was very sloppy, and actually cut too deeply on the right side of the post (past the half way point).
---> According to my measurement, the left side is just about to the half way but didn't past the half way point, the right side seems to be cut less than the left side.

The final effect is that your post is weakened by the "too deep" cut on the one side. Sistering on one side would help. Sistering on BOTH sides would be overkill, but much better.
--> Sorry for my poor english here.. So sistering Both is overkill... is the word "overskill" means good or bad? Do you mean sistering both is much better than just sistering one?

Another option would be to disconnect wiring, remove post, replace the post with a pair of sistered studs side-by-side with only a hole cut through the stud centers, re-run the wire.

---> City inspector is here and actually suggest it's not a good idea to replace the post, as this post is already attached to top plate and top post with metal strap (I guess it's at least 12 inches long), if take it out, and redo it actually weakens the structure. I don't understand why but I guess because there're nails into the top plate, take them out and renail it actually weakens the top plate and the top post.

I actually have another post of similar condition at the same wall. (the 4X4 post to the left of this middle center one). Should I do the same sister both side and don't worry about adding too much weight to the bottom plates?

4. Contractor should be held responsible for making the corrections (either sistering with round hole wire routing, or post replacement with new stud which has the proper round hole wire routing - if the install requires a post there for some reason, sistered studs with a round wiring hole would also work).

---> Actually we are on the edge of signing a termination agreement for something else I'm not happy with. I guess it won't cost too much to make these corrections to the 2 posts so as long as they refund me some money then it should be good and no need to make this thing bigger (if the cut is really less than half and if my measurements are correct, I can't held him responsbile I guess), correct?


If I sister the post with 2 2X4, should the new contractor also cut a slot, or should do round hole? if they do round center hole, it would be hard for the wire to from the center to the edge slot unless the sisters are far away from the center post. If I do the "L" sharp and have the 4 inch long side facing the room, I guess we're losing some spaces for the insulation (I need soundproof as this is for a sound studio) as I guess the insulation comes in batts and unless I cut the batts open and fill behind the 4 inch long face, there's sound insulation behind that 2X4 stud.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:45 PM   #42
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


Pictures will help get past any confusingly worded descriptions. Attached below for your reference.


2. OK. You're measurements reveal that the slot is not too deep, and that is better. Personally, I would sister both sides of the post and trim the insulation bats to fit the narrower width. You will lose a little sound deadening. If you orient the new sistered studs at right angles, you won't lose as much sound deadening by shoving the insulation into the void spaces behind those sistered studs.

Repeat your approach for both posts being repaired. Do not worry about the weight of 4 additional studs... it will have no impact on your bottom sole plate.

4. The cost of 4 studs should only be about $10-$12 for materials. The new contractor can install those four sistered studs in less than an hour (should be able to, anyway). One hour of labor and the low cost for materials should make you happy to have it done right and be rid of the other contractor who did it badly.


Additionally, by turning the sistered studs sideways, they will not need to be drilled or cut at all. Just make sure that the wire is stapled or attached to those new studs to keep it from being too close to the opposite wall surface are.

If, on the other hand, you sister the studs flat, side-by-side with the notched posts (as shown in the sketch), the hole can be drilled at the edge of the notch nearest the center of the post -- doesn't have to be perfectly centered.
Attached Thumbnails
Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?-notched-post-repair.jpg  
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:33 AM   #43
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Originally Posted by F250 View Post
Pictures will help get past any confusingly worded descriptions. Attached below for your reference.


2. OK. You're measurements reveal that the slot is not too deep, and that is better. Personally, I would sister both sides of the post and trim the insulation bats to fit the narrower width. You will lose a little sound deadening. If you orient the new sistered studs at right angles, you won't lose as much sound deadening by shoving the insulation into the void spaces behind those sistered studs.

Repeat your approach for both posts being repaired. Do not worry about the weight of 4 additional studs... it will have no impact on your bottom sole plate.

4. The cost of 4 studs should only be about $10-$12 for materials. The new contractor can install those four sistered studs in less than an hour (should be able to, anyway). One hour of labor and the low cost for materials should make you happy to have it done right and be rid of the other contractor who did it badly.


Additionally, by turning the sistered studs sideways, they will not need to be drilled or cut at all. Just make sure that the wire is stapled or attached to those new studs to keep it from being too close to the opposite wall surface are.

If, on the other hand, you sister the studs flat, side-by-side with the notched posts (as shown in the sketch), the hole can be drilled at the edge of the notch nearest the center of the post -- doesn't have to be perfectly centered.
The picture really helps, and in the picture when you say "at right angles"-- the word "right" actually means the right of "left and right", means a 90 degree turn not meaning "correct", am I correct?

So I can put them at right angels or along side the post, which way forms a stronger structure?

and I suppose, if the 3rd post (which is the to the right of the middle post)has the same problem, I do the same by sistering 2 2X4, so 6in total, still not worry at all for putting too much weight to the bottom plates even though some of the bottom plates (especially at the right side of the wall) is missing .


Why Neal call people sistering 2 2X4 silly?
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:55 AM   #44
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


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Why Neal call people sistering 2 2X4 silly?
Because you only have to replace the amount the damage was done.

How many studs would you put in if some one cut the whole stud in half.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:39 AM   #45
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Re: Should I do a full Jamb or a part Jamb for this hole?


Neal is right in that only one stud addition is probably more than adequate to compensate for the damage to the post, and that's why I called it "overkill" to use two studs ("overkill" meaning that it's way more than necessary).

"Right angle" means 90, and it doesn't necessarily make the arrangement stronger as much as it simplifies how to work the wiring.

I and others have mentioned several times that you simply need to stop worrying about the weight of the stud on the bottom sole plate. It is not an issue.
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