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Old 10-30-2018, 05:22 AM   #16
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


I agree that you may need a carpenter. Sorry for the gloom but there are few things wrong there and at least one will cost you more than expected.


First for the leaks, follow the water up and look at the outside. Post photos of those points. Per area, one perspective photo to include the surrounds but focused (I know, wtf is he talking about - maybe 10x10' of the area and including some of the roof?) then another photo of about 4x4' area of the outside where the inside leak is.



Problems:
The roof above the deck where one slopes into a plumb wall and the scupper acting as a gutter. Always a problem. Google has images with search words "roof valley against wall". Keep searching and learning. I think you have time. I'm including some images. Photo 2 says CORRECT but not really. The flat valley flashing is correct but it drains against the corner trim and ends in a point, where water can bottleneck. It also ends against the shingles. Photo 3 is better. You can see that a roof can't dive into a flat wall. There must be surface like these for water to drain. That valley flashing will look like a trough with bent sides that are under the wall siding and roofing shingles. Both sides at least 1.5 to 2' esp if you have snow. Then the sides are also overlapped by self healing plastic flashing such as ice shield. If using metal flashing, no nails except the top edges would be best.


This flashing would drain into a scupper but the flashing must extend over and into the scrupper. I am assuming you don't have such overhanging drain.


Problem 2: That angled corner has a flashing cap on it but I can't see if the cap overhangs the vinyl trims. Could be draining into the vinyl siding and trims.


Problem 3: you said the deck is free standing but it doesn't look it. But again, free standing or not, the ledger or the rim joist side must be flashed and down far enough to cover the joint between the house wood frame and the foundation concrete. Your door flashing overlaps this ledger/rim flashing. So if any water leaks along the door, water will flow over the flashing and over all the flashing to the ground. Flashings do not have to be one piece. It can be several pieces. Door sill pan joint, if using metal, should be sealed but vertical flashing overlaps (side to side) can be 4-6" without the seal.


Vinyl siding is esp leaky. It needs a lot of thought about how vinyl parts may hold water and how water drains from them. Vinyl is cheap and easy but needs the most preparations, I think.


Keep watching the videos and checking the images of door, window, deck and deck ledger flashing. You'll get the idea.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:20 PM   #17
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
I just don't know a good way to find what you have with out having your eyes on the damage.
Understood... Thanks.

Carpdad, thanks for the thorough response! You've giving me a lot of new information to research, but I agree about that area of the house being a problem. Water comes off that section of the room like a waterfall when it rains. I think that's why my deck is settling on that side too.

I'm going to do some more research and I'll also take some more pics of the areas you described.

Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:29 PM   #18
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDel View Post
Understood... Thanks.

Carpdad, thanks for the thorough response! You've giving me a lot of new information to research, but I agree about that area of the house being a problem. Water comes off that section of the room like a waterfall when it rains. I think that's why my deck is settling on that side too.

I'm going to do some more research and I'll also take some more pics of the areas you described.

Thanks.
You said the deck was free standing, how far is the beam from the wall?
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:52 PM   #19
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
You said the deck was free standing, how far is the beam from the wall?
The deck is about an inch off the house. The deck boards are a little closer, probably 1/4 -1/2" gap from the deck boards and the house.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:54 PM   #20
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDel View Post
The deck is about an inch off the house. The deck boards are a little closer, probably 1/4 -1/2" gap from the deck boards and the house.
The beam that is holding up the joists?
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:57 PM   #21
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


I just ran out and measured.... Two feet off the house.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:09 PM   #22
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDel View Post
I just ran out and measured.... Two feet off the house.
Not a lot of room to work but something to think about.
A
Cut the decking as discussed earlier but may not as wide.
Cut the joists at the beam leaving the deck board hanging in the air.
Do the repairs as needed.
New ledger attached to the house.
New joist with hangers and sit on beam beside the other joists.


B
remove all the nails holding joists to the beam and slide it back.
Still gives you 2 feet working space but you can stand up maybe.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:28 PM   #23
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Thanks Neal.... that definitely gives me something to think about. I've read your last message 10 times and will probably need to read it 10 more to fully understand.

Here's what it looks like under there:


BTW, TWO things I noticed tonight.

1. I cleaned the mold with some mold killer and it looks a little better. The bottom of my rim joist isn't black but brown now, like it's wet. Thought, it still feels hard and solid when pressing against it with my screwdriver.

2. I just realized my rim joist isn't one piece. It's in multiple sections. So, I think that may be a good thing if I need to replace any sections.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:55 PM   #24
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDel View Post
Thanks Neal.... that definitely gives me something to think about. I've read your last message 10 times and will probably need to read it 10 more to fully understand.

Here's what it looks like under there:


BTW, TWO things I noticed tonight.

1. I cleaned the mold with some mold killer and it looks a little better. The bottom of my rim joist isn't black but brown now, like it's wet. Thought, it still feels hard and solid when pressing against it with my screwdriver.

2. I just realized my rim joist isn't one piece. It's in multiple sections. So, I think that may be a good thing if I need to replace any sections.
The rim joist is often shorts when you are short of joists material.
You would cut them anyway.


Drill a few holes not all the way thru the questionable rim and see how solid it is. Go gently, don't go thru.


C 3 or 4 jacks and jack up the deck ( beam) nearest the house.
Do repairs as needed and set it down, no damage to the deck Hopefully.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:00 PM   #25
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Just an update. I spend a few hours on this project today and learned the following:

1. My rim joist cleaned up and looks great at the bottom but it's definitely rotten at the top by about 4" wide and a 1/4" down. And the bottom plate above that area is also rotten by about the same width, but it's a little worse with about 1/2" of soft wood.

2. My sheathing is soft and wet at the head jamb behind the brick molding, but the nails holding the Jchannel were still solidly in place.

3. Besides the wet sheathing at the top, which I'm attributing to the lack of top cap flashing, I think I found the major problem for the water infiltration at the bottom. I think it may be entering from the outdoor outlet. I say this because the sheathing was solid EVERYWHERE above the outlet, but was like a sponge below. Plus the outlet shows definite signs of water damage. This is also the area where the rim joist is bad. This is just a theory but I could be wrong, because my subfloor in the same stop on my other set of double doors was also very rotten; thought, I haven't gotten behind the siding to inspect that side yet.

I also leaned it was VERY hard to remove the Jchannel without breaking the tabs on the back. I still have NO IDEA how you guys do that, or get the siding off above the head jamb without pulling the Jchannel. I could not figure it out!! So I pulled the jchannel before removing the siding (damaging most of the cutouts that hold the jchannel in place).

I was also surprised to see almost all of my siding nails were tight with no allowance for expansion or contraction, but this was mostly small pieces so maybe that was intentionally done that way.

I do have a question:

1. A lot of the heads of my sheathing nails were rusty (not the shanks). Does this mean they were wet? The OSB looks good and feels solid; however, the nail heads are rusty.

Here's some new pics:



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Old 10-31-2018, 09:46 PM   #26
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Re: Rim joist damage. Do I have to repair before installing new french doors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDel View Post
Just an update. I spend a few hours on this project today and learned the following:

1. My rim joist cleaned up and looks great at the bottom but it's definitely rotten at the top by about 4" wide and a 1/4" down. And the bottom plate above that area is also rotten by about the same width, but it's a little worse with about 1/2" of soft wood.

2. My sheathing is soft and wet at the head jamb behind the brick molding, but the nails holding the Jchannel were still solidly in place.

3. Besides the wet sheathing at the top, which I'm attributing to the lack of top cap flashing, I think I found the major problem for the water infiltration at the bottom. I think it may be entering from the outdoor outlet. I say this because the sheathing was solid EVERYWHERE above the outlet, but was like a sponge below. Plus the outlet shows definite signs of water damage. This is also the area where the rim joist is bad. This is just a theory but I could be wrong, because my subfloor in the same stop on my other set of double doors was also very rotten; thought, I haven't gotten behind the siding to inspect that side yet.

I also leaned it was VERY hard to remove the Jchannel without breaking the tabs on the back. I still have NO IDEA how you guys do that, or get the siding off above the head jamb without pulling the Jchannel. I could not figure it out!! So I pulled the jchannel before removing the siding (damaging most of the cutouts that hold the jchannel in place).

I was also surprised to see almost all of my siding nails were tight with no allowance for expansion or contraction, but this was mostly small pieces so maybe that was intentionally done that way.

I do have a question:

1. A lot of the heads of my sheathing nails were rusty (not the shanks). Does this mean they were wet? The OSB looks good and feels solid; however, the nail heads are rusty.

Here's some new pics:




One missing box surround goes to the sheeting with a wrap taped around it
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