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Old 07-13-2019, 06:17 PM   #1
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Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Our garage opening is looking a little rough. The posts on both sides have significant rot, and the concrete threshold is badly cracked and deteriorated. We also have a bit of an issue with water getting into the crawlspace under the garage and I suspect the source is also the threshold of the garage. In any case I'd like to tackle the issue but need some advice.

The plan is roughly as follows:

- Support garage lintel with temporary braces and remove flashing & existing rotted posts
- Remove the concrete threshold and 4" of asphalt driveway,
- Install a trench drain along the front of the garage.
- Re-pour the concrete, sloping it out of the garage and into the drain with a post base on either side.
- Replace garage posts with new pressure treated lumber. Install new flashing & weather stripping
- Connect trench and downspout at the right side of the garage into an existing storm water runoff running 2' underground along the sidewalk to the street

I'm an experienced DIYer but my experience with garage framing and concrete are both limited so I'm hoping you guys here could take a look at my situation and plan and let me know if you see any issues or have any suggestions.

Thanks!

Photo1: Garage with downspout on right side. Existing drainage system (underground) runs just to the right of the sidewalk
Photo2: Cracking threshold/ where I believe most of the water is getting in
Photo3: View showing the concrete I propose removing
Photo4: View of cracked concrete with washed out gravel below
Photo5: Looking from the threshold under the left side post. Jamb and post both look quite rough.
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Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-img_20190713_163357.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-img_20190713_163412.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-img_20190713_163418.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-img_20190713_163500.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-img_20190713_163606.jpg  


Last edited by spizzak; 07-13-2019 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:50 AM   #2
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Good God in heaven, how did that happen?

That just ain't natural.

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Old 07-14-2019, 02:49 AM   #3
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


That does not look good. Do you have a bonus room below the garage. Does the wood structure go below the floor level.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:28 AM   #4
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


It would be best if you can dig and find out where the wood posts land, making sure they have a foundation. I don't think they support anything much except be frame for the door hardware but then, they could be part of the load bearing structure for the story above and the roof. Remove the ceiling drywall at least a foot past the wall above and look at how the frame is constructed. You probably will need to call a carpenter in at this point. If the garage door post is not structural, then:

I think the sheetmetal cover for the bottom edge will have to be removed. Then the middle of header supported with temp posts. Then dig around the posts and then cut out about 16"( minimum 6-8"). Pour a concrete slab and post up to the cut out post. Screw in some lag screws under the cut edge to be the anchors. Predrill with one size less for the screws. Once this sets for about a week, remove the header supports, dig out the space under the threshold and fill with concrete. I don't know why you have a crawl space under the garage slab but you will have to make costly and extensive changes around it to get it to stay dry. I don't know if anything long term is possible since the property is flat. There's no way to let the water flow somewhere else.
One way would be dig deeper and install drain pipes and a sump pump. Then pour a slab over it as well as vapor barrier and ventilation fan to condition the space.
BTW, I am not a pro in any of the above work. For crawl space water problem, you should search further or try asking about it in the concrete section of the forum as well.


The space under the threshold: are you sure it does down to a crawl space? Maybe they are concrete blocks, and surface masonary finish? Maybe there is some kind of footing under the blocks? Even then, I would remove the blocks and fill with concrete for a solid mass.
Is it also possible that garage began as a carport only and front wall was added later?

Last edited by carpdad; 07-14-2019 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 07-14-2019, 03:26 PM   #5
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Oh no, these are not the sentiments I was hoping for. To provide some more details and clarification to the questions above:

- The construction is all original
- The garage does not have crawlspace underneath it but rather all around it. (see attached drawing)
- The garage does have a second story above it.
- There is an existing drainage system already in place which I'm planning on tying into. It runs out into the street.
- I'm not sure what the wood was supposed to be sitting on or if it structural or not. I will remove the drywall around the door opening to verify where the lintel sits.

It sounds like my first step here is to uncover/dig out the jamb and posts and see how that is supposed to be supported and proceed based on that. I've attached some more detailed drawings to help paint a more complete picture of the situation. These are my own sketchup models based on what I can see/infer but are not based on any blueprints or similar.

Thanks very much for the suggestions so far... if you have anything else based on the updated drawings please let me know.
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Old 07-14-2019, 03:37 PM   #6
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by carpdad View Post
The space under the threshold: are you sure it does down to a crawl space? Maybe they are concrete blocks, and surface masonary finish? Maybe there is some kind of footing under the blocks? Even then, I would remove the blocks and fill with concrete for a solid mass.
Is it also possible that garage began as a carport only and front wall was added later?
I think my post above should clarify most of your questions but no there's no crawlspace under the threshold or garage just next to it. I assume under the garage is just a gravel base but I'm really not sure. I also assume the exterior wall (right side of the garage) has a footing but not sure how deep. That wall does extend all the way to the crawlspace at back of the house too though so maybe the same all the way forward.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:14 PM   #7
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Water is infiltrating at the hole and moving back to the crawlspace wall and entering there. You need to stop it from entering the ground. Aside from the framing problems of the door, the strip of concrete (ramp) from the driveway to the garage slab needs to be removed, possibly by a jack hammer. Then you can tell what needs to be done underneath. You may even need concrete pumping to fill up any void made by years of rainwater entering the hole. Luckily gravel is compacted when delivered and will not compact any further so you may not have much, but you need to remove the ramp and start over.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:56 PM   #8
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


The garage floor should have been lower and it was the last thing they did and just raised it above the framing. All the structure for the front of the room above is sitting on that rotten wood. It should look something like this.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:32 PM   #9
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Okay so I did some digging (unfortunately literally). I puled off the aluminum flashing, removed the cracked concrete threshold, and cut away some of the rotten wood. Here's what I've found.

1. The lintel is indeed supported by those posts that are rotted and floating. I think the 2x4 holding up the garage door track is taking a brunt of the load of the top floor.
2. There is water sitting under the garage slab, and it has washed out quite a bit of the gravel
3. What I believe is the rim joist for the left wall of the garage is sitting under water
4. The wood under the front, left corner of the garage is completely gone, and I suspect the entire rim joist all the way around the garage has seen water.

Now I guess the question is what do I do? The biggest concern I have right now is the integrity of the rim joist all the way around the garage. Can that be replaced? Can it be replaced without tearing apart the entire house? This has been a pretty depressing exploratory afternoon... please give me some good news guys

Photos and drawings below
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Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-6.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-7.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-8.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-9.jpg   Repair Garage Threshold & Posts-isofoundation.png  

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Old 07-14-2019, 06:48 PM   #10
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Just speculation, but I don't think the bottom plate is damaged. You would have water wicking up the sheetrock. The grade of the sidewalk on the left appears to be lower than the garage floor, so that is a plus.

That gosh awful mess at the threshold is unbelievable. The garage needs lifting so a new pour can be made across the threshold completely back to the corners. Even then, I think it may be too thin to really work well. At a minimum, I would find a way to lift the two side stiles and pour from the edge to the corners, and then hire a paving crew to make a tapered pack from the driveway to the garage floor. I don't know, it is a mess.
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:41 PM   #11
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by spizzak View Post
Okay so I did some digging (unfortunately literally). I puled off the aluminum flashing, removed the cracked concrete threshold, and cut away some of the rotten wood. Here's what I've found.

1. The lintel is indeed supported by those posts that are rotted and floating. I think the 2x4 holding up the garage door track is taking a brunt of the load of the top floor.
2. There is water sitting under the garage slab, and it has washed out quite a bit of the gravel
3. What I believe is the rim joist for the left wall of the garage is sitting under water
4. The wood under the front, left corner of the garage is completely gone, and I suspect the entire rim joist all the way around the garage has seen water.

Now I guess the question is what do I do? The biggest concern I have right now is the integrity of the rim joist all the way around the garage. Can that be replaced? Can it be replaced without tearing apart the entire house? This has been a pretty depressing exploratory afternoon... please give me some good news guys

Photos and drawings below
Can you confirm which way the floor joist go for the room above.
And the roof above the room, where are the gutters, on the sides or across the front?
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:32 PM   #12
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Can you confirm which way the floor joist go for the room above.
And the roof above the room, where are the gutters, on the sides or across the front?
The framing directions at least are accurate in the attached. Once thing that's incorrect in these drawings is that the floor above the garage does not actually extend all the way out to line up with the garage door but rather stop 1-2 feet short.

Gutters are all the way around (hip roof) as shown in photo.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:14 PM   #13
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by spizzak View Post
The framing directions at least are accurate in the attached. Once thing that's incorrect in these drawings is that the floor above the garage does not actually extend all the way out to line up with the garage door but rather stop 1-2 feet short.

Gutters are all the way around (hip roof) as shown in photo.

This may be a big deal and best treat it like it is until you prove it isn't.
Remove the drywall around the corner to expose framing, on both sides.

Support the door way with 6x6 post and use 6x6s for timbers to span the gap.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:56 AM   #14
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Agree that the header needs a better support. I thought the story above was more set back from the photo. Plus is that there is no obvious sign of upper story sag but needs to be sure.


Why the shallow space under the garage slab? Gravel fill settled? Under that gravel is probably dirt. Maybe the dirt was excated for the construction and wasn't compacted. Smooth gravel surface maybe says that the slab was poured on gravel but gravel separated from the slab. Maybe there is a plastic barrier in between. You could drill holes in the slab and fill with slurry if want to try. There is another saying that the slab stayed in place and is time tested. I think that is up to you.


Another thought. Lumbers seem to be below ground level. It is possible to think that lumber hasn't rotted away because of that space. If space under the slab is filled, water may find its way toward lumber. The house is as if built on a slab of wood, below ground level, so if you want to change things, you may have to take a careful look at how the water around the foundation is controlled.
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Old 07-15-2019, 01:46 AM   #15
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Re: Repair Garage Threshold & Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by carpdad View Post
Agree that the header needs a better support. I thought the story above was more set back from the photo. Plus is that there is no obvious sign of upper story sag but needs to be sure.


Why the shallow space under the garage slab? Gravel fill settled? Under that gravel is probably dirt. Maybe the dirt was excated for the construction and wasn't compacted. Smooth gravel surface maybe says that the slab was poured on gravel but gravel separated from the slab. Maybe there is a plastic barrier in between. You could drill holes in the slab and fill with slurry if want to try. There is another saying that the slab stayed in place and is time tested. I think that is up to you.


Another thought. Lumbers seem to be below ground level. It is possible to think that lumber hasn't rotted away because of that space. If space under the slab is filled, water may find its way toward lumber. The house is as if built on a slab of wood, below ground level, so if you want to change things, you may have to take a careful look at how the water around the foundation is controlled.
There is no brick ledge and they wanted the driveway up to the brick level so they just raised the floor. Now the foundation has to be raised to height. The question is , How far around the sides does it go?
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