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Old 01-20-2010, 08:38 PM   #16
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Hi scuba,

I understood everything you said for the most part. I get that I should support the 2x ledger to support the roof while removing the 4x4 and getting a 2x12 installed.

The one part I do not understand is the logistics of:
Quote:
11 3/4 height needed - 3 1/2" for the 4x4 = 8 1/4" approx cut out from the 2x's above the 4x4
Take out as much extra as needed to have the bottom of the header even with the ceiling joists in the other room
well, there is 3" distance from the bottom of the ceiling joists to the bottom of the 4x4, so I thought i would actually need to cut 14 3/4 in order to get the desired height of the header.

but anyways, If I cut said 2x4s, then what will be holding those 2x4s up while installing the 2x12s? (let alone cutting all of the other 2x4s applicable)
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:45 PM   #17
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The ledger should be nailed or (better) lag bolted into the wall studs
By supporting the ledger you are supporting the wall area

Ok on the 14 3/4 - I wasn't sure the exact measurement that the 4x4 was sticking down below the ceiling joists



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Old 01-21-2010, 12:30 AM   #18
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"The ledger should be nailed or (better) lag bolted into the wall studs
By supporting the ledger you are supporting the wall area" ------- I don't agree. The low angle on that roof would not support the wall and possible gable end built above, plus overhang. And what is supporting 1/2 the hip roof? The second floor wall. Why don't we wait and review the pictures. The ledger could be lagged as another poster said, and straps to keep the rafters from pulling away. IF needed at all because of the shear flow in the plywood roof sheathing.

It appears the bathtub is on that wall and a window above?
Hip roof of 5' x 13' x 30# = 1950#/2 = 975#
With the hip roof load of 1000# and the wall load and how much roof above........ You may just need a 4x8, until the pictures...........

A major problem I see is your floor joists (2x6) spanning 13" when maximum span should be 9'9". You are 34% over-spanned. BY today's standard. Because they are thicker, maybe wider? It would change a little.

Could you show a picture of the floor joists at the cantilever near the plastic ?

Be safe, Gary
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:37 AM   #19
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thanks scuba and gbr.


gbr - what cantilever are you referring to?

i'll provide as many pictures as I can.

Quote:
A major problem I see is your floor joists (2x6) spanning 13" when maximum span should be 9'9". You are 34% over-spanned. BY today's standard. Because they are thicker, maybe wider? It would change a little.
well, first off, the house was built in 1904 - actually, the second floor was an expansion i believe, so was the kitchen, bathroom, spare bedroom. It was a cabin back in it's original form.

however, i can see that the top plate supporting said joists have sagged in the middle over time - I believe this might be due to the false wall upstairs directly above where the saggings lowest point is. it's false in that it does not support the roof.

Quote:
It appears the bathtub is on that wall and a window above?
Hip roof of 5' x 13' x 30# = 1950#/2 = 975#
With the hip roof load of 1000# and the wall load and how much roof above........ You may just need a 4x8, until the pictures...........
mm...not quite. That wall has a bedroom above it. The bathroom upstairs is in a completely seperate section, which seems like another shoddy addition but that's a seperate topic. The heaviest 'stuff' above this wall is a double-bed, two ike closet cabinets, clothes inside them...and the close of the house itself - that's about it...

either way talking about the 4x8 - I was imagining getting two 2x12s, so that the 2x4 posts being held above could sit fully - 1 4x8, or two 2x12, or two 2x8 would each effectively solve this problem no?
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:51 PM   #21
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"gbr - what cantilever are you referring to?" ------ I mistook the stairwell joists as cantilevered, where a portion shows in an earlier picture.

With the asbestos siding, 1x6 sheathing, plaster and lath, 2' of roof comp shingles, all the stud framing, and the window, you have some serious weight. I figured it out and decided you need a Structural Engineer to visit on-site for the exact measurements for the material weights per square foot. I will say it is more than 2-2x12's can handle.

The plaster/lath and plaster ground at the base trim inside, with the 1x6 exterior sheathing is supporting the wall. The hip roof may be helping some, if the nail connections at the hips hold much longer if much load. He/she will advise on supporting the wall when replacing the single 2x4 bottom plate with an engineered LVL about 7" tall. This would make it a lot easier when cutting the hole.

There is some liability involved with getting the correct beam size and posts to the foundation. Use the paperwork from the S.E. when getting added homeowners insurance for the work.

Let us know the outcome with some pictures, appreciated them so far!

Be safe, Gary
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:03 PM   #22
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Hi All,

Thanks again for all of the advice you have all provided.

I replaced the beam this past weekend. Some of the pictures in past posts to the thread were removed so everything relevant can be found in this post.

I replaced the beam with 2-2x8s glued and bolted together every two feet.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1491001/Before/old_header.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1491001/Befo...ded_joists.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1491001/Befo...supporting.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1491001/Befo...supporting.jpg
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:13 PM   #23
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looks like you might have a spot to add some blocks from the new beam up to the ledger carrying the common rafters?
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